The Riffs, Beards & Gear Podcast
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The Riffs, Beards & Gear Podcast
Episode 7 - Frank Gross (Thunder Road Guitars)
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In this episode of Riffs, Beards & Gear, we sit down with Frank Gross, the mastermind behind Seattle’s premier guitar destination, Thunder Road Guitars.
We dive deep into Frank's journey, starting from his early days playing in the band On The Last Day, all the way through the hustle of launching a business selling guitars out of his bedroom. Frank shares the incredible story of how that humble beginning evolved into the massive, world-renowned success that is Thunder Road Guitars today.
Whether you're a gearhead, an entrepreneur, or just love a great success story, this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.
For some reason I thought you went to school with them or knew them through bands or something. Anyways. Um Yeah, Aaron played basin on the last day and uh when our band exploded, uh he got into graphic design and when you mean exploded, you mean like you know the kids in their early twenties had the you know, thought they had the world in the palm of their hands and then the world's particular part of the world's anatomy in the palm of their hands.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And uh yeah, and then I got into buying and selling guitars and Frank.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Welcome to the Riff's Beards and Gear Princess.
SPEAKER_00You made it. How are we doing?
SPEAKER_02We're we're awesome. Yes. How are you doing? I'm good.
SPEAKER_00I'm good.
SPEAKER_04We have so much to talk about. We've wanted to get you on here for I mean, we've been talking about getting you on the channel in general for a long time.
SPEAKER_00We've talked about it for a long time, and I know you and I did something way back when we opened the first Thunder Road. Um, but this is probably other than just shooting the shooting the stuff in the shop, this is probably the first time we've like sat down to have a conversation.
SPEAKER_04I am excited for you to be on the podcast because you and I were starting out I think that was the first the first store like when I came into the street.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, when you and Jace came um to uh like it was like opening weekend, I think you was 2011? Uh that was the end of 2012.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Original location. Original like the hut. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00800 square feet of Thunder Road.
SPEAKER_02It was not much bigger than this.
SPEAKER_00No, it wasn't actually.
SPEAKER_04I mean But it was a big deal, and we'll get into the Thunder Road stuff. But at that time when we met, I like the channel was very, very young. I was just kind of fine by the seat of my pants, and you kind of were too in a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_00100%, yeah. I mean, um, that was a you know, I'd operated Thunder Road just as an e-commerce website for the first almost year that it was like a legal business. And um going from that to a place that people can walk into was like it was like, you know, from the minor leagues to the big leagues, so to speak. Big, big step. And uh it was scary and it was you know it was what I wanted it to grow into. But um yeah, I mean it's just different than having a website you just have to answer.
SPEAKER_04Okay, before we get too far into the Thunder Road stuff, I want to back up because you were in an incredible band called On the Last Day. We were listening, I was I was jamming him. Um I was in a band uh called uh as Fate Would Have It. Okay.
SPEAKER_02We probably played together.
SPEAKER_04Probably I was telling him it sounds like band names in the site again. Yeah. Um the foreword bands. But my recollection, so this was what, circa 2003, 2004, 2005. Yep. Um there was the big Seattle bands that were actually leaving and going and doing stuff in that scene was Aiden and you guys.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, so going way back, way, way back, um, I met the uh On the Last Day was a band before I I started playing with them, and that was um 2004 or 2005. And I was playing in a band at the time that occasionally played shows with them, and they just had one guitar player. I admired them and admired their work ethic, work ethic and um the swoopy bangs. Huh? The swoopy bangs and the uh tight pants and the white belts and all those all those things. And just kind of got to know them, and my band was kind of falling apart, and jokingly at a show somewhere probably in the middle of nowhere, playing in front of nobody. I was like, hey, if you guys ever want another guitar player, let me know. And that grew into me playing with them. I'm at that point um still like super local, like no real proper release.
SPEAKER_04Um their turning point in my mind was when you joined.
SPEAKER_00So I joined the band in spring of 2005. Okay. And they had kind of started recording an EP. And after I joined, like all the songs were written for it, and it was mostly recorded. Um, I joined the band and we um finished recording the EP and then self-released it. And uh do you remember the website uh Book Your Own Fucking Life? Yes, I do. So I uh in the band that I was in before that used that website to try to book shows like around the Northwest and stuff. Wow. And um when I joined on the last day, um we're like, well, let's let's book some tours. Let's let's go and do it. Let's all quit our jobs and we're gonna take our swoopy bangs and our eyeliner and we're gonna go take this show on the road.
SPEAKER_04No one was really doing that. I mean, okay, so there was Fall from Grace, you guys. Shout out to Fall from Grace um and Aiden. And Aiden, we we knew them, and it was like they got a call and then they were signed and they were gone, and we didn't see them for long time.
SPEAKER_00I I mean we played a lot of shows with them before they blew up and before they got a record deal and all that, and there were there was a good like 18 months of them grinding before they actually um and and I know that just because I like I'm good buddies with them and um know those guys, but uh yeah, you know, so we kind of saw that and we're like, it's possible. Like, you know, we can do this too. I think all of us saw that and we're just like, oh like a local band that's like doing big stuff. Um so we self-released an EP and we booked a bunch of uh tours that were you know the dive bars of America, and most of them were like West Coast or like Midwest, Montana, uh Colorado, like basically from west of Colorado.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00And we just kind of kept doing the same circuit. So we'd book like a six-week run of shows, and um, a lot of that was booked through that website that I just brought up. Uh MySpace at the time, like being able to connect with other bands and being able to give it was huge, you know. And I know a lot of people use MySpace for like, you know, uh, I don't know, whatever kids do these days. But like we really used it to network with other bands and other shows.
SPEAKER_04My band played the first Taste of Chaos at the Everett Event Center main stage. Yeah because Aiden actually won the contest. We came in second, but you had to play acoustic and they refused to do that.
SPEAKER_00So then we got the slot. We played the year after, or maybe the two years after, I can't remember, but it was the year that like Thrice and um Yeah, that would have been in 07. Yeah. I think yeah. Yeah. We we'd like had done a European tour and came back and then drove across the country and played that show. And it was like crazy. But that was uh far, far after what I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_04Your influence on the band though. So where does where does your influence come in as far as the songwriting? Because the full length in context of that time, everyone was trying to get heavier in detuning and you guys were heavy, but you have really good sense of melody.
SPEAKER_00So um I didn't do a lot of songwriting in the band. Okay. Um, I was I was happy to be part of what we were doing, and I saw, you know, I've been playing in bands since I was a kid, and I saw four other guys that had the same work ethic that I did, and I was just like happy to be at the table, right? So they kind of had a formula with how they wrote before I joined the band, and I was just like, yeah, I'm in, I'll just be the guitar guy. I'm totally fine with that. Um, so we did that EP and we um, you know, did a bunch of self-book tours um and played a lot of shows and kind of learned how to grind it out. You know, I mean, we like never stayed in hotels, we slept in the van, we played like uh VFW hauls, like I bet that smelled great. It was like, and I was like happier than a pig in shit. I was so stoked because that's what I wanted to do, you know, when I was a kid, um, learning how to play guitar and working at Emerald City guitars when I was like a young teenager.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I did not know that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. From uh so I worked at Emerald City from 2002 until 2005, quit to go do on the last time, and then went back a couple years later.
SPEAKER_04So that kind of gave you the taste, I I imagine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, my so my dad and Jay Boone, uh Trevor's dad, um were really good friends. And um, I used to go in there when I was a teenager, and you know, my dad kind of like, hey, you should give my kid a job. And and he did I tuned guitars and swept floors and I loved it, you know. And I think that um a lot of my friends at the time, I was so I was 16, so my friends were working in fast food and grocery stores. And I got to work at a guitar shop. That was really cool, you know. Um so I at that point in my life, the only thing that I wanted to do was play in a band, right? So I never saw that as being a career path. Of course. It was just something cool to do, and you know, like Billy Gibbons would come through the shop or whatever rock stars, and it was like cool for a you know, a young kid to kind of see that. That's cool for an old guy to see that. Um I was also at the time surrounded with guys that were I want to say at the time, like late 20s, early 30s, that were all playing in bands in town. Um, so I wouldn't say I like looked looked up to them, but I kind of I kind of did. I was like, that's really cool.
SPEAKER_02These guys are in They were doing what you wanted to do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. They were playing in playing in bands and they were playing playing out and stuff. And um so, anyways, yeah, so I left Emerald City, I was you know, playing it on the last day, we were doing tours, and um we you know started trying to get a record deal because that's at the time, you know, the way the record business worked, that's what you had to do.
SPEAKER_04It was the way out.
SPEAKER_00Um and we sent stuff to a number of labels, we sent stuff to local labels, we sent stuff to um mostly like you know, Victory, Epitaph, like all of those kind of labels at the time. And we saw a decent amount of interest from Nitro Records, which was Dexter Holland's label. Um uh the rep for that label at the time, I forget his last name, but his name was Sean, and he didn't have thumbs.
unknownWhat?
SPEAKER_00And it was so he was like the coolest guy in the world, but he would come out, he'd fly out and see our band. Um he flew out and saw us at a show in Probo, Utah, and we played in this uh VFW hall or something that was gonna get torn down. And you know, you see like footage of like bands playing a place and like kids are tearing stuff off the walls and people are getting shoved through the ceiling. It was like that, and it was like one of the funnest shows I've ever ever played in my life. And he came to that and was like, Well, these guys are like they're doing stuff, you know, they're playing a show in their hometown or not in their hometown that people are showing up to. And um uh anyway, so they showed interest and then Victory showed interest, and we after kind of going back and forth and back and forth with both of them ended up signing a deal with Victory, which um at that time was kind of one of the like one of the labels, you know. And as uh I think I was 20 or 19, so I was like a young, young kid, that was really cool. Um so they gave us some dough to make a record. Um the fellow that produced our EP also did the record. His name's Steve Carter. You guys probably know him or know of him. Um he did the Aiden Records, he did Himsa um and a few other kind of Did he do the Himsa record? He did the big the courting tragedy and courting tragedy courting tragedy and tragedy and disaster. Yes. He did that. Um he did some cradle of filth stuff, a bunch of heavy stuff. So not stuff that like we were kind of like, but he was a good friend and still to this day is a really good friend. Um but so he did the record that we did with Victory. And um I remember when we were sitting down to talk about what we wanted it to sound like. He was like, you know, your EP is kind of like all over the place. Like there's some songs that are like heavier, there's some songs that are a little bit more like kind of punk influenced. Like, what do you guys want this to sound like? Do you want to be a heavy band that kind of does some rock stuff, or do you guys want to do be a rock band that does some heavy stuff? And we chose this direction. And um you know, again, like we were really, really, really young and naive, despite having the experience of being a a band that had um, you know, printed our own merch, put out our own record, slept on floors, like you know, when it came to the real business side of music, we were like super green. Of course. And um we signed the deal, we you know, we had a date for for the album, and we didn't have the I guess the team behind us. So we didn't have a proper booking agent, we didn't have a pro proper manager, and we kind of just like free balled it. We're like, you know, whatever tours we can get on, and um it kind of uh it was a lot of fun, but it wasn't it wasn't um doesn't sound very productive to fatigue. No, it was super fatiguing. Um we did uh the first full US tour we did was with uh a data remember. Yep.
SPEAKER_04Um who it's a small band, I think they're maybe doing something. They're probably playing like the horizontal or something.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, probably. Um good buddies. But they uh we did a US tour with them, and nobody who knew we were nobody knew who we were, nobody knew who they were, and we were playing like the shittiest of shitty places, except for in the northwest, we played some cool spots, like towns that we'd played before, and then um they're from Florida, so we played some good shows in Florida with them. But for the most part, the rest of the US was like pretty sweet in those two corners though. It was there were some great shows right there, but everywhere else it was kind of dicey. Um and uh we did that. Our album came out that fall, or early fall, or late summer, early fall, like August. Um, and we mostly toured with bands that were either like of our level or, you know, right kind of getting going. And so it was a lot of like uh treading water, right? Yeah, treading water and just ups and downs. You know, we played root we would play really great shows and then we would play shows to nobody. And you know, you're sitting there and you're like, I'm on one of the biggest labels that's you know, that's a thing right now. Why are why are these things not happening for us? And um, you know, and then internally we all wanted to kill each other because we've been stuck in a van for at that point, like almost two years nonstop, you know.
SPEAKER_02And it's hard. Everyone gets into that van at the beginning of a record contract or a record cycle with at least some expectations.
SPEAKER_00Sure. And and we we had pretty high expectations, you know, seeing like our friends do really cool things and um you know, knowing that we had like financially the like this juggernaut behind us, we thought we were just gonna like, you know, Grand slam. Go for it. Frank, let me ask you this.
SPEAKER_02Yes. I know what shitty things you don't miss. I know what you don't miss about touring. Because they're the same things I don't miss about the old way of touring. Yes. What is the shittiest thing that you miss? Because there's a there's a romance and there's a nostalgia. There's some good things about the hard tour.
SPEAKER_00I was thinking about that. I was thinking the other or not the other day, but like maybe a couple years ago, I was like, if I had an opportunity to play in a band and go do that all over again as a 40-year-old man with a family and kids and stuff, and but do it like I did back then. So like in the van, sleeping in the van, sleeping in Walmart parking lots, um, would I set aside the fact that I could pay for a hotel or I could, you know, not eat junk food, um, would I do it like I did back then? And I think I would. Yeah. You know, I know that sounds absolutely crazy, but um I think it's also convenient.
SPEAKER_02It's a lot harder to do all those other things.
SPEAKER_00Right. Um, I think I would do it just like I did back then, and I think that um I learned a lot about the way the world works, and I learned a lot despite us not really quote unquote running a business. I kind of feel like a lot of the fundamentals of how to operate a business I learned from being a dude in a band that was just trying to survive, you know? Sure.
SPEAKER_02I'll bet you would last one week on that tour.
SPEAKER_00I mean calling calling the wife and be like, send me home. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I miss the expedient now. Yeah. Yes. I miss how not connected the world was back then. Oh god.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have a GPS.
SPEAKER_04You remember going to a like a stop a bus stop and like phone and home and be like, everything good? Everything okay, cool. Well, I'll you know I'm I'll call you in a couple days when we get to blah blah blah. And like that was it. Someone, maybe maybe the TM had a tour manager uh um a cell phone that you could use in like a you know if you really need to get a hold of somebody, or there was of course email, but like there wasn't the this no back then. I mean we would map quest and print.
SPEAKER_00That's what I was just gonna say. We would do that for the beginning of the tour, we'd print like the binder. Yeah. With all of the places that we were going, totally disregarding anything in between those places. That's right. Um, and for the first like five or six like tours that we did, that's how we did it. And then for Christmas one year, somebody got one of the guys in the band's parents bought us a like a um GPS unit that was sat in the van. Let's go. Yeah. And that was like, you know, like what? This thing tells us where to go.
SPEAKER_02This is when we got one of those 12 volt plug-in TV DVD combos. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And we were like, That's big city living.
SPEAKER_04Look out. Xbox? Yeah. Or so uh we were in a van uh spot once that had like a one of those fold down from the ceiling PlayStations you can sit there and game. I was like, this is we made it. We made it pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_00We never had that.
SPEAKER_04Pretty cool. Do you remember your guitar rig for most of your I do, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so um let's see. I'm trying to think.
SPEAKER_04Um I'm guessing a rectifier. For sure. Yeah. So uh but I kind of bounced around a little bit.
SPEAKER_00So when I play a rectifier at some point. Yeah, if you didn't have a rectifier and if your bass player didn't have a ampeg SVT 810, you weren't a real player. SVT seven or I'm trying to remember Aaron played through a he had like a Rack Mount SVT and Sans Zamp 4. Yes, and a Sansamp, and his like his bass tone was through through the whole career of the band. Like I think he had the best tone of anybody in the band. Um, but I um I would say at like the height of our doing stuff, um, or at least at the beginning, I played ESP guitars. Um, I had a EC 1000 that we put a bunch of on the last day themed uh art on. Um I played that through a triple rectifier and no pedals, no nothing, just a triple rectifier, a tuner, and a wireless, and that was it. My man. Um like no clean channel, getting it done. Just just in the red channel, just going for it.
SPEAKER_02Were you uh uh spinning the guitar still?
SPEAKER_00I was better at that than I was actually playing the guitar.
SPEAKER_02Show you real good at that. Would you uh let me ask you about your technique? Would you go to do it that way?
SPEAKER_00You have to throw it backwards, if you throw it frontwards, you're like in for a world of pain. Just my personal opinion. I'm sure there's guys that throw it that way and do a great job.
SPEAKER_02But so you have to use a silky strap, right? If you use Martial clipbox, baby.
SPEAKER_00So Justin, the other guitar player nonetheless, they use that. I, for my whole career of playing guitar, I have used an Ernie Ball nylon strap. Like the five dollar that's just my jam. Yeah. I've used that my whole like I've never had like a nice strap. We sell a lot of nice straps at the shop. Of course you do. When people are like, what do you use? I'm like, the Ernie Ball. The five dollar ball. And I love it. Like it just feels comfortable, you know. Great spinner. Yes, it's a great spinner. Um but we did a lot of that. The spinning and the um we were a very like rambunctious band on stage. So um, you know, we wanted to, whether we were playing in front of like 10 people or 2,000 people, we'd want to look like we were look the same. We wanted the show to be the same.
SPEAKER_04Um Okay, so we didn't bring you all the way down here to talk about your old man. We can keep going, yeah. Um but I want to know the transition of how you decided to so you said you went back, so after the band maybe calms down. So you go back to Emerald City?
SPEAKER_00We we put out that record and um it kind of there was a little spark for a second, and then it was like and it kind of just fizzled out. Um the relationships within the band were kind of falling apart. Um, we had the opportunity to go do a European tour, which was really cool because we yes played a ton in the US at that point and had never had that opportunity. So we had the opportunity to go over to Europe with a another victory band called Scars of Tomorrow. That was like a little heavier than us. Um and we jumped at it because we were like, yeah, like none of us get along, and but we're gonna get a free trip to go to Europe. Like, yeah, let's do that. Um free trip. Free trip, yeah. Um so we went and we were there for almost two months and we played a bunch of shows all over the place. Um at that time, I don't know if this is still the case, but at that time I felt like a band of our size they treated so much better than bands than places in the U.S. 120%. Like it was amazing. It was like we felt like we were like on cribs or something.
SPEAKER_04It was just like my teeny tiny band got treated like the Beatles. Yeah, it was crazy.
SPEAKER_00Um so we did that. Um we were flying back, and uh there was just like it was bad. And that was kind of like the beginning of the end. And um we got back from that, we did another US tour, we kicked our singer out, thinking that you know, we're the band, and you know, and uh we put auditions out, we got a new singer, we got dropped by our label, um which was I would have probably done the same thing. If I was in his shoes.
SPEAKER_02You guys went in the Leonard Skinner direction.
SPEAKER_00That's what I yeah. No.
SPEAKER_02Southern handlebar mustaches.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so we um New Singer, we self-recorded another uh batch of songs, uh put it out with a small indie label, still not getting along, and it just kind of like imploded. Um and me and the new singer of that band formed uh kind of like out of that formed uh another band called Me versus Myself that was kind of like 90s alternative rock kind of influence, so like semi-sonic goo goo dolls, like that kind of vibe. So way, way different than what I was doing with On the Last Day.
SPEAKER_04Still pretty rad though.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And uh we started doing that. Um I went back to Emerald City and begged for my job back. Um and in between those two had a small stint at Guitar Center. Um Is that right? That is right. Yeah, I worked at Guitar Center for almost a year and a half. Which location?
SPEAKER_02Tuckwila. Tuckwilla. So was Bender down? Bender was not down there then.
SPEAKER_00That's where I actually met Bender. Um he was working in the Seattle store. And um I would always there like any of you guys ever work at Guitar Center? No, I've done one. Do you know what the green screen is? Yes. Okay. So that's how like stores and employees would communicate. And I would always see his name on emails and things. And um, anyways, we got to know each other and we've been buddies ever since, and now he works at the shop. But um where am I going with this? So yeah, I worked at Guitar Center and then left Guitar Center to go back to Emerald City Guitars.
SPEAKER_04Did you work at the Tacoma one um because of Angel from Aiden?
SPEAKER_00Angel worked there after me.
SPEAKER_04Okay, because we used to go there and go, Were you in Aiden?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Hey bro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um no, I worked I worked at the Tuckwell Guitar Center from 2007 to the middle of 2008. Okay. So it was pretty short. And um was doing that while I was doing um the tail end of On the Last Day, and then that ended. We started Me versus Myself. I at almost like at the same point left Guitar Center to um go back to Emerald City guitars, and um kind of at that point was still not thinking that this would be a career path. I just like loved those guys and loved that store.
SPEAKER_04At this point, are you are you finding guitars and selling them? No. No, not at all.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. I was like, I had like a small guitar collection and um was getting into um being a guitar geek, you know, so to speak.
SPEAKER_04So you're researching, you do a lot of research, vintage stuff, just trying to learn and soak it up.
SPEAKER_00Just being around it all every day, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um I imagine you learned a lot at Emerald City too.
SPEAKER_00Even when I was a teenager, yeah. Um, but I think that um having the those experiences which were at the time like couldn't have been more opposite, you know, like the like very, very mom and pop, um, you know, the Emerald City guitars of that time period was not the Emerald City guitars of TV. Of course it wasn't, you know. Um it was uh it was it was um you know a very, very small, small family-owned business and um still is obviously, but it was Trevor brought it into the modern age. He did, yeah, and he's crushing it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um but um yeah, so see seeing how that business operates versus how like the mega empire, you know, and I feel like having both of those experiences, I when years later when I decided to do my own thing, I got kind of got to take pieces of both of those experiences and put them into what we do at Thunder Road. Um, but um yeah, so that Emerald City guitars, um, the band that I was playing in decided we wanted to move to LA to uh make it. And uh I I did that too in 2005. Um the other three guys really wanted to do it and I didn't. I was like, I love my job. Like me and my girlfriend, who's my wife now and mother of my kids, just got an apartment together. Like, life is good. Yeah, I don't want to rock the boat. They're like, come on. They're like, if you want to stay in the band, you have to come. And begrudgingly I went and um You did. I did. So we moved to uh LA and lived with Don Robertson, who I'm pretty sure you know.
SPEAKER_02Oh wow. He was our the whole band dead. The whole fucking band. And you guys lived in the adult show. Yes. You guys lived in the side house at the Century Media House.
SPEAKER_00We lived there. Oh my god. So um with Wait a minute, what year? This was 2011. The beginning, like this was January of 2011. Wow, with big promises of all of the things that people in LA think that they can do for your band. Um I said bye to Emerald City Guitars for the second time and said bye to my girl, who was not not very, very pleased. And uh it's like it'll just be a couple months. And you know, a couple months turn into a couple months, turn into a couple months. What? And yes.
SPEAKER_02This is a tragic chapter.
SPEAKER_00This is very tragic, yeah. I fucking hate hated living down there, like absolutely hated it. Um, but not having a job or any sort of income, I was like, I know guitars, like I'll buy guitars and I will flip them. And that's kind of what where like I saw that doing it not working somewhere else was possible. So I drive around like Southern California and buy a cheap, inexpensive you know, off recycler and Craig's or pawn shops or whatever, and with the very, very, very small amount of resources. I'm talking like one guitar every two weeks, you know, and probably tiny.
SPEAKER_04And we can we pause at this at this time period right now, and can you tell us what that going a little deeper of what that was like trying to find guitars? Because again, this is pre-reverb.
SPEAKER_00Way pre-reverb, yes.
SPEAKER_04eBay was obviously around, but that was basically that or Craigslist, right?
SPEAKER_00So Craigslist and um there was like a two or three pawn shops that were around Don's their the house that we were living in. And I would just like go up to the pawn shop because we weren't like nobody was working, like we were had band practice every day and shows, you know, once or twice maybe every two weeks. So it wasn't like we were super busy. Um so I'd go to pawn shops, I'd do Craigslist, and I'd you know, buy one guitar a week and sell that, and that was groceries for two weeks.
SPEAKER_02Aaron Ross Powell, did you have good relationships at those particular shops or were they just sort of like we would kind of just walk in like incognito and be like, that looks cool, that looks cool.
SPEAKER_00And like thinking back on it, I I wouldn't say I ever like there was no home runs, but there were definitely things that I was like, okay, there's a couple hundred bucks. So that was the intake and the outtake was eBay. So I had an eBay account and um I would, you know, take pictures with my iPhone that which at that time were like pretty pretty grainy, you know, with the iPhone of 2011 was not the iPhone of 2026. Um and that's kind of how that started. And um I'd fly home every month and a half and see see my girlfriend, and we started talking about like what's going on with the band? Is this actually is there any is anything gonna happen with this? Are you happy doing this? And like I just wasn't like the love and fire and passion of being a young kid in a band was like 100% gone. And I felt like I was um just doing it because I'd always done it, and it that was like a big part of my identity was being a dude in a band. And I felt like the band was pretty good and I saw potential and I I wanted it to do well, but I was just like it miserable, like living down there and like you know, broke and you know, it was away from my family and my friends, and um I don't know if you've ever spent a lot of time down there, but the caliber. I did this your story of your retirement now.
SPEAKER_04I did that in 2005, except I left my five-year-old daughter home. Okay. And moved down to try to make it, and I was homeless for a year in Van Nuys.
SPEAKER_00So we were I would I wouldn't say homeless, but we were like pretty close to it, you know. Eventually Don booted us out and we had to go stay in an apartment in Long Beach, which was actually pretty cool. Long Beach is a I think a cool neighborhood. Yeah. So um we moved down there in January of 2011. You know, by summer I was just like done, just not not stoked. The things that were being promised weren't happening, and uh which rightfully so, like it takes a lot to, you know, especially at that point. That was like right when Spotify and like those things were just starting to happen. And uh I think that you know even a few years years before that, you know, you could get people and behind behind your band and things could happen, and that was kind of the beginning of that starting to go away, it felt like um so uh having these conversations with my uh now wife, um, it's just like well, she's like, What do you want to do? And I'm like, well, like what do I know how to do? Like I did I didn't do college or anything. It's like I know how to be a dude in a band and I can buy and sell guitars. And that's kind of it. She's like, Well, why don't you try to do that? And Bless her.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know how to do two more things than I do. In my mind, that's not true.
SPEAKER_00You're so handsome. I mean, you can be a you can be a pretty you are. You can be a male model. Um but um so in my mind I was like, but that's impossible. I can't do that. I don't have any sort of like financial footing or any sort of um know-how to run a business other than like, well, I bought this guitar for $200, and if I sell it for $350, then I'm doing okay. You know, like I I understand that at that point I understood that part of it, but everything else was like so foreign. Um so we were having lunch at a restaurant that we went to a bunch at the time, and she was like, You should really do it. Like, why not? You know, worst worst absolute worst thing that happens is you fail, and then you know, but at least you try it. And I took that conversation to heart and flew back down. Uh this would have been September end of September or early October, and uh we're in rehearsal one day, and two of the guys in the band are yelling about something that dudes in bands yell about. Of course. And they're about bounce back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. And I'm kind of just standing there. And you know, you have that like moment sometimes. I do. Yeah. So they're like, Frank, what do you think? And I'm just like, I quit. I'm out. I'm like, I don't I don't care. It was like, it was literally like that. I was I was just like, I don't give a fuck. I don't care, and I'm not happy, and I think that you guys would be way better off without me and this band. And you quitter, and you you you know, we're this close, and you know. No. And we're all still buddies now and all that. Like we're we're good friends and everything. But at that moment, that was uh they were pretty bumped. Of course. And um rightfully so. I mean, they gave up their lives too to move down there. And um so I put in my two weeks with the band and were there shows booked for that two weeks? Uh there was the last show that I played was a like a birthday party at a at some thing, and it was not a great show. We we we did play some great shows down there, but that was not one of them. And it was like I you know when you feel like justified in your decision to send for them. I was like, I made the right decision. I don't know what the hell I'm gonna do.
SPEAKER_03Check out this part mitzvah we're playing.
SPEAKER_00It was kind of like that. Oh so I rented a car and drove me and my guitars and amps and PA home. They were bummed at it because I had the PA and they were like, dude, you're taking out a PA. I eventually gave it away, like years and years and years later. I'd be like So at this point you were probably pretty stoked for I was stoked to do anything other than do that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you're going home, you have something, you have a goal.
SPEAKER_00I had an idea. Yeah. And I had no idea how I was going to uh get the ball rolling to start this idea, but I had an idea. And um I had a lot of time to think driving all the way home by myself. And uh I got home and just kind of started trying to figure it out with very, very, very limited resources. Um I applied for a small business loan, which at the time I didn't have any credit or anything, and I I wanted $10,000. And that was to buy a computer, some lights.
SPEAKER_04Might as well be in a million.
SPEAKER_00A c a camera, which yeah, at the time, yeah. And they were like, denied.
SPEAKER_02And that wasn't even like no web. You were still eBay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, at this point it was like there was no name, there was no anything, right? Okay. And um I was going to do that too to start the start Thunder Road.
SPEAKER_02And this is 2011?
SPEAKER_00This is the end of 2011. So this is like two. They were I I that was a really cool um That was uh You mean like the online part of it or the in because they had a location in Portland for a while.
SPEAKER_02That was the first store I ever saw where I was like, whoa.
SPEAKER_00It's a good looking store.
SPEAKER_02Aren't you fancy? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There was a so much space. It was big. And it was like right in the Pearl District in Portland. It was a really beautiful store. Um But um yeah, so it was kind of trying to put the pieces together of how to apply for a business license and how to do these things and uh applied for a small business loan that I did not get, which is fine. Um, but I was like crushed, right? I was like, why if I don't have a camera and uh website and all of these things, this isn't gonna work. Um and uh I hit up my friend Aaron Johnson who uh uh also goes by Pixel and Quill and does all of our visual stuff now and was the bass player and on the last day. And I was like, hey, I need a I need a website for this guitar business thing I'm starting. He's like, okay, well do you want anything other than a website? I'm like, no, no, just a website. He's like, well you should probably like you know, like branding and like all of the things that you know I I hadn't closed. Yeah, so far over my head. And so he was really fundamental in that part of the the business starting. Um and not having any sort of like real like capital, I traded him a base for that. You know, it's like I'll give you a base and you give me the website and the branding and all that. And uh that was the beginning of our you know, 15-year relationship of him doing all of the you know visual stuff with.
SPEAKER_04When this starts, what do you have, I imagine, a small stash of which to put a list onto that website?
SPEAKER_00So I had at the time maybe like 10 guitars that were mostly personal guitars that I'd like collected over the time. And um, so I was like, all right, I got 10 guitars, a website, and I don't have anywhere to operate this this thing out of, you know. Um and are either of you familiar with Active Space? Sure. It's Active Space Building. Okay, so it's like uh office art studios thing. So um I don't know, they might do it by the hour now, but by the uh when I rented one and it was um a monthly like thing for uh a space that was like maybe a quarter of the size of this room.
SPEAKER_01Whoa.
SPEAKER_00And I had like a little desk set up there, uh, a little photo booth thing for shooting guitars, a roll of bubble wrap. Whoa. And that was like January 1st, 2012. It was like websites up, uh you know, our Facebook page has like two followers, one of which is me. And uh here we go. And um that was that was like the the very, very, very beginning.
SPEAKER_04Do you remember your first order you got through the website? I do. What was it?
SPEAKER_00It was a Roland Space Echo and it broke. So it freaking broke. Uh no, the guy actually was like, yeah, it's cool, I know how to work on these, but it was like devastating, right? Because I was like, what is it? This is gonna ruin me, right? Like it was like, this is like, you know, this is my very first order. This is really cool. And I think it actually went to a guy, I think he was in Canada, so it was like an international thing. And panic. We uh no longer buy and sell those units because uh I take that back. I want to walk that back a little bit. We still buy and sell them, but we will not ship them. Uh and the reason for that is even if they're service, even if they're working properly, um, if they get shipped 99% of the time they will show up not working. I don't know why, but like Space Echoes, uh what's the uh Echoplex, like any of the tape units, they're just an Echo Rack. It's yourself a nice modeling pedal. They're very, very, very fragile. They're amazing and they sound incredible, but they're just so fragile. Um, so that was the first order, and uh it showed up, and the guy turned it on and nothing. So he sends me this email, and then my like my heart sinks, and I'm just like, you gotta be kidding me.
SPEAKER_04My business is gonna die.
SPEAKER_00I'm dead, I'm done, it's over.
SPEAKER_04When you start Thunder Roads, is it like so you put up the site and you're basically you you wait for an order and kind of and then you get one and then you ship it off and then rinse and repeat.
SPEAKER_00So all right, so I the website's up. Um I was working at a a friend of mine's restaurant um busing tables. So I'd go to Thunder Road from like eight or nine in the morning until three in the afternoon, and then I'd go to my buddy's restaurant and clean up tables and you know, um, because my goal was to take anything that the store was generating and just dump it back into it and not try to live off of it. Right. I wanted to do that for as long as I could to try to build up resources to have a place that people can walk into and whatnot. So um I would that that first batch of guitars, you know, kind of sold pretty quickly and like word got out a little bit, so I'd get like some consignments or were you advertising or posting that the thing existed beyond your own personal social media platforms? I mean, that was really it.
SPEAKER_04So And this was the dawn of social media as we know it today.
SPEAKER_00Facebook, Instagram at that point was still like a photo editing app. That was, yeah. So but I was using it to I'd be like, look at this guitar I got today, you know, and it was like just kind of transitioning from photo editing app to like a social media platform. And uh yeah, that was it. I mean, there was no there was no budget for like real advertising. So it was all social media. And um I, you know, it's like would cruise around in my like 1986 Volvo and like go buy a guitar off Craigslist in the guitar center parking lot at 10 o'clock at night and take it back to my hundred square foot little office and thrift.
SPEAKER_02How many sketchy deals did you have did you go to buy a guitar?
SPEAKER_00Well thinking back on it, not really that many. Like no dangerous situation. No, nothing dangerous and nothing that like clearly it's stolen, you know. Right.
SPEAKER_04But maybe some weirdos?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I remember I went to a guy's house one time up like way up north, and uh I was going to buy a GMP head, like a 2203 or 2204. I like the story already. And it was like Craigslist and it was like a slamming deal. It's like I gotta go get this thing. So I called a guy and I'm like, hey, I like have this like internet guitar shop and I I'd like to buy your amp. And uh I drove up and I want to say he was in um Everett, it was like pretty, pretty far up north. And uh, you know, it was just like kind of one of the first experiences of like walking into somebody's home that had you know, guitars and amps and stuff, and cats and bongs and all sorts of stuff all over the place. And uh it was pretty wild. Um I left with the amp. And um yeah.
SPEAKER_02And your innocence.
SPEAKER_00And my innocence, yes.
SPEAKER_04I wonder if this was I swear to god, this might might be the same dude. I bought a uh two channel rectifier in 2012, 11 maybe, and it was I had to drive all the way up north, and I want to say it was an Everett or maybe Might have been.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he had a bunch of stuff there, if I remember correctly.
SPEAKER_04And he was so not self-aware. And I stood there and I was like, So you have the rectifier for sale, and he has cereal and goes, Oh yeah. And he starts and he's watching TV and starts eating, and I'm standing there awkwardly, and I'm like, Can I see it? And he goes, Oh yeah. Um, it's behind that marshal, and then there's a few other things. And so I had to dig dig it out, look at it. He goes, So you want it? You look literally like fucking like out of the big Lubowski or something like that.
SPEAKER_00The first six or so months until like I had a place that people could bring stuff into, there was a lot of that.
SPEAKER_04So people are weird, man.
SPEAKER_02And so it took six or seven months for you to transition out of active space into that first so website goes up January 1st.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, our all of our branding and everything's like established 2011, because that's when I applied for the business license, and that's when like it was like this is gonna happen. Um but the website officially went up uh January of 2012, and then um, you know, like grind and grind and grind and grind and grind and grind. And by summer I was like, hey, this thing's like kind of working, like I'm selling like one or two things a week, and like that's kind of cool. And um I put in my notice at the Restaurant I was working at, and um the dude that owns that place is still a really good friend. And uh he was like, I I knew you were gonna like be out of here at some point. It's like, well, I'm glad you had that confidence because I I didn't. Um but uh yeah, and just kind of started looking for a place that we could actually like open up a real like proper store. And um being a living in West Seattle, lifelong West Seattle, I knew I wanted to do it in West Seattle and not stepping on anybody's toes, um, neighborhood-wise, you know, I didn't want to do downtown, I didn't want to do like Ravenna or Aurora, like those places in the in town were kind of covered, right? And those guys that had stores in those areas at the time were doing great. Yeah, so it's like I don't want to go and like set up next to the trading musician, that would be stupid, you know. Um so uh West Seattle, as long as I've lived there, had never had a guitar shop. And that was kind of in in the back of my mind when I was getting this thing rolling, that was like the goal. It's like that's what I want to do, is have a place in West Seattle on California Avenue that people can walk into. And um man, like the the uh the retail and restaurant like turnover rate at that point was just like was really cutthroat. There wasn't a lot of things available. Um things would somebody would go out of business and the next person would fly in and there was never was never up for lease. And um I had a really hard time trying to find something that uh the A that was like in the budget and B and B that uh was available. And um the original building that we moved into had a kids' clothing consignment store in it. And they I remember like I was driving by one day and they had like a you know closing, you know, everything must go. I was like, that would be a cool little guitar shop. And I remember going in there and kind of looking around, they're like, Are you looking at the show?
SPEAKER_04And do you find a phone number and call somebody?
SPEAKER_00No. So I asked the the gal that was um had the had the business there. I was like, Hey, do you have any information for your landlord? And she's she's like, No, um, she doesn't want me giving out her info. And I was like, Okay, well, um, can I leave my phone number? She's like, Yeah, you can leave it. So I left it, and she like kind of was like, just like, you know, threw it aside or whatever. And I remember I came back later in the day and I shoved a thing, like a piece of paper under the door that said, like, this is me, this is my name, this is what I'd like to do, and I'd like to open the you know, guitar shop in your building and my phone number. And like shoved it underneath the door after they were moved out and just kind of forgot about it and didn't think that it was you know gonna be a thing. And a couple weeks later, I was over in eastern Washington with my wife when we were like driving around buying guitars. When when I say buying guitars, like a few, you know, Safari. Yeah, it's like a very, very low budget guitar safari. And my phone rang, and it was the lady that owned that um that property. And she was like, Hey, I I saw I got your note under our door, and that sounds like a really cool use for our space, and I think you should come take a look. And I was just like, like, just like over the moon. I was like, Are you kidding me? This is amazing. And um we got home, and then a couple days later, um, I went and met her. And when you think of a landlord in Seattle and the type of person that that can sometimes be, this person was like the exact opposite. And when I I say I mean that in like the best way possible. Super cool. Super cool. Um, you know, I was like ready, I was like, I just want this space. I'm so excited. Like it was like, you know, totally blinders to any sort of like reason or rationale. It's just like this is it, you know. And we looked at it for 10 minutes, I was like, I'll take it. You know, and she's like, Well, do you do you um don't don't you want like a discount or something? I was like, No, no, no, I I want to pay what you I want it, you know. You're not gonna haggle me or not. And I think the rent was like $1,500 a month. Right.
SPEAKER_02That's a lot for that space. It was a lot for the space.
SPEAKER_00But but it was like in the, you know, it was like uh I think I was paying $200 a month for the active space. So that was a huge jump at that time. Um but I just was so ready to like ready to do it that I was just like, yes. She's like, how about twelve hundred dollars a month? And I'm like, what?
SPEAKER_04You're like, hang on.
SPEAKER_00I was like, what? And I was like, no, no, I'll I'll pay, I'll pay what you're asking. She's like, you guys seem like really nice people, and like I want to I want to help you out.
SPEAKER_02And a little thick.
SPEAKER_00So she gave us the space for us, which was like now thinking about how the world works, I was just shocked, you know. Right. And um we moved in in November of that year and opened in November um and did a podcast with you like that month.
SPEAKER_04I want for the viewers and listeners at home, I want to paint. Did you ever go to that original location? You were there. Absolutely. It's the one guitar store I ever went to. I want to paint a picture because I I didn't know. I mean, I had just met you, and I assumed, like, okay, this is your shop, and then you have a warehouse or something full of guitars. I don't know anything, right? And I remember remember asking you, this is cool, but do you have this in like some other color or whatever? Like I think it was a strap or something like that. And then you literally went, This is what I have. Yeah. So I was like, oh.
SPEAKER_00And at that time, we when we opened that store, there was probably 30 guitars on the wall, right? Total. Yeah. And that was like every dime to my name was like on the wall in that.
SPEAKER_04They were all really cool.
SPEAKER_00You had maybe eight or ten amps. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the little cluster in the center.
SPEAKER_00Little cluster of amps, like two acoustic guitars.
SPEAKER_04And uh do some sort of meet and greet there too. I hosted that I'm gonna be here, come hang out. Fastback?
SPEAKER_00We did do a fastback thing, yeah. So maybe that was later. Mark did an amp clinic in our store, which I did something there, I don't remember. Which our store is like, you know, there was no room for any sort of clinic.
SPEAKER_04No, I was like, hey, hang on, let me go in the back and check.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04Nope, we don't have it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like let me check the shelf in the bathroom. That's in the inventory.
SPEAKER_00That's where towards the end of us being in there, like bubble wrap, guitar cases, like stuff was stacked everywhere. Yeah. Right. Because we were there for from 2000, the end of 2012 until the middle like m uh spring of 2015. Um and uh there was a lot of growth that happened in those few years. And there was just like at the end there, we had like guitar cases stacked in the bathroom.
SPEAKER_04Like it was Does the storefront provide a a massive taking off point looking back? Did that really give a central.
SPEAKER_00It definitely provided a level of um legitimacy. Legitim legitimacy that we, you know, you that I don't think somebody can have just being an internet guitar buyer. Um, there are a lot of guys now that do that and just have the internet and don't have a brick and mortar that do really, really, really well and have a great reputation. Um but I feel like at that time, at least for for like for me, it seemed like to get the type of gear that we were trying to attract and to get people to take it seriously, I felt like we had to have a place that people can walk into. And um, you know, we didn't like overnight, we're just like, oh, we're going gangbusters. There was definitely a very slow roll of 30 guitars on the wall to, you know, maybe we had two people walk in today, and then maybe tomorrow we had like three people walk in, you know. We weren't really in, you know, if you know West Seattle, that's not really a super walkable area where we were at. It's California Avenue, but it's not in the junction.
SPEAKER_02It's in between the two.
SPEAKER_00It was kind of in between the two. So people really had to kind of make a trip to come down to the had to be really intentional. Yeah. Um so um we were there for you know a handful of years and it was like, we need more space. And, you know, kind of same thing. We're like looking for more space and um found the space in the junction that we moved to. And um uh at that point we partnered with Chad, who has the base shop. Yes, who we uh you know co co uh co-habitate with. Um and uh he was one of the previous owners of Base Northwest and was kind of trying to do his own thing. That was all happening at the same time that Base Northwest was closing. So um, you know, if you know anything about like Seattle instrument retail, like that was a really cool store. There was nothing like it was. I bought so many things there back in the 90s. Nothing like it, but really on the West Coast. No. Um, and they I think that you know, Chad's kind of stepped away, and then Evan the O, their owner, ran it for the last maybe like five years that it was open. And I think that he was just kind of like over it, you know. Um, so that was closing. We were getting ready to open up, and you know, I people always ask, like, well, what's the dynamic? Like, there's like the bass shop and then Thunder Road guitars, and like what is the how does that work? And I I I kind of tell people it's you know, the bass shop is kind of like the Starbucks inside of the safe way that is Thunder Road, you know, is the kind of the best way to describe it. Yeah. Um, so that was the beginning of that relationship. And um, we were in the junction from 2015 to 2019, and the um landlord that we had in that building um was kind of the opposite of the first landlord we had. Um, let's just put it that way. And um I really wanted that space. I was really, you know, being like born and raised in West Seattle, like that was like it was the heart of the junk. It was the heart of West Seattle. And um I signed a bad lease, not really knowing what I was doing. There was no like attorney or lawyer looking over it. I was just like, that's what I want. And um we were up for a lease renewal, and it didn't go the way that I wanted it to. And um, so we're like, well, what you know, that's our rent was gonna double at the time. And that seemed like a massive, you know. It's like, geez, that's a lot, you know. So um we found the space that we're currently in, yep. And we moved there in twenty twenty nineteen and um have been there ever since. And kind of same thing like with our original store, like we just kind of ran out of space. And um That's good. That was good. It's a good problem to have. Um their their business grew a lot between us leaving the junction and us moving into that space. And some of that was intentional and some of it was just kind of like by chance. And and when I say by chance, um, so pandemic hits like six months after we moved into that space. And the world's very weird, you know, and up until that point in the business's history, we'd only done used in vintage. We hadn't really done any new stuff, like we'd done very, very little. Like we did like fastback stuff with Mark, we did some pedals, like accessories, but we didn't do any new or new guitars or amplifiers. Everything we did was was vintage and use. And pandemic hits, and we're like we can't do guitar shows, we can't have people in the building, customers can't come in.
SPEAKER_04You only have the website, basically, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's kind of like back to square one almost, you know. Um and the first little bit of co of the beginning of COVID, I felt like we were like driving around and delivering like strings to people, and like somebody'd order a guitar off the website and I'd like to drive it over to them. And it was uh it's kind of like grassroots almost, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, you can't stop.
SPEAKER_00No, right? So we're like trying to keep this thing going while the world is like falling apart. And then something clicked, and it was like orders kept popping off the website, and like we couldn't we still couldn't have people in the store because Seattle, you know, you couldn't have retail and restaurants, and you know, it was really, really strict about how you could operate. Um stuff starts popping off the website, and we're like, we need inventory, like we can't go to guitar shows, we can't have people keep people can't come into the store to sell us gear. Like, what are we gonna do?
SPEAKER_02What's the do you bring a pedal brand in first? What's the case?
SPEAKER_00So we had done pedals, like new pedals up until then. We just hadn't done any guitars or amps. And so the first dipping of the toes into new stuff was Fender Custom Shop, and that was done through Duff. Um Jeff and Duff were buddies and are obviously good, you know, you guys all played in the band together. Um, and somehow that conversation came came up like, well, if you guys ever want to, like, if you need inventory and you ever want to do some new stuff, like you guys could do, you know, like a fender custom shop. Cool. And uh that blew the doors like totally wide open to what we do now. Um and it wasn't it wasn't really intentional, it kind of just happened, you know. I was like content with the way that things were going, and I felt like you know, there was like a little bit of growth year over year, and um, but when we started doing new stuff, it was just like things kind of exploded.
SPEAKER_04Did you see an immediate response with your customer base as you know, more people coming in going, oh hey.
SPEAKER_00It was almost like the opposite. It's like people would come in and be like, Where's all the vintage stuff? Because we got all these new fenders and it's like a lot of things.
SPEAKER_04Well, up until that point, you had many years of just one thing.
SPEAKER_00For sure. And so the beginning of that was like, we'll describe this and this and this, and not really being strategic about it or really knowing what we were doing. We just were like, we need inventory. And um taking a step back in that moment and thinking, like, okay, so we're doing this, we're now competing with everybody. Yeah, Andrew, Sweetwater, Guitar Center, um the little guys, the medium guys, like we're we're trying to play in that arena. How do we do that and compete being this big compared to some of those stores? Um and that's when we started kind of coming up with the ideas of doing like exclusive things, doing things that were just Thunder Road and that further took that into the kind of direction of you know how we do things now.
SPEAKER_04How do you navigate finding obviously you're a business, you have to, you know, you have to keep the lights on, there has to be a little bit of money left to be made. How do you navigate um getting a used instrument or used stuff in with reverence has access to reverb, totally eBay, all of this knowledge is now present. How do you navigate? Like, listen, man, I always that's not what it's worth.
SPEAKER_00I always tell people that finding great guitars is the hardest part of my job. And um, it's also one of the funnest and most rewarding parts of my job, but it's difficult, you know. It's not like um people just roll in every day and are like, here's here's stuff that I want to get rid of, and it's reasonable. I found this Les Paul Jr.
SPEAKER_04is hoping to get a hundred dollars for it. There's none of that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, which is okay. I think people should be educated and they should know what they have. Um, but um having a place that people can walk into naturally brings stuff in. And as we've grown over the years, that you know, it is now like a pretty steady flow for gear coming in. Um, I think having a reputation of a place that people can bring, bring used in vintage stuff and know that they're gonna be treated fairly is huge. Um and then, you know, we do a lot of guitar shows, a lot of the vintage shows we do um around the country. Um we go to those primarily to bring stuff back. Um we don't really do a lot of selling at those. We do a little bit, but it's really So do you still have a table typically? Yeah. We we set up a booth and we have we bring guitars, but we bring stuff knowing that you know the buyer base at those events are our peers, right? The guys that are running around guitar shows buying guitars are stores or resellers. They're not the the public's not running around with like tons of cash, like yeah. You know, I have an extra twenty thousand dollars. There's not just what about it. There's a little bit of that. But most of the buying and selling that happens at guitar shows, not to you know, to to break the myth, but it it is all most of its vendors, you know, most of it are otherwise. So um uh that's where we get a lot of the cool vintage stuff um is is m those shows.
SPEAKER_04Um they're still wheeling and dealing.
SPEAKER_00Totally, yeah, yeah. I mean it's like a it's like a glorified swap meet, you know. Of course.
SPEAKER_02But um high stakes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Uh those are a lot of work, I tell you. Like it's fun, but it's it's like a weekend of of sh you're in the shit the whole weekend. Um so between the guitar shows and you know what walks in, um, you know, occasionally we'll get calls from like somebody around the country that has like a collection of guitars and we'll you know fly out or travel to go grab those. Wow. Um so but but it's not it's not easy. It's not as easy as just calling up the Fenders or the Gibbons and saying I'll have two of these or three of these. Um there's like a little bit more hustle involved in in getting that stuff and um getting it in a manner that it's not like screwed up and getting it in a manner where it's um we can then offer it um to our customers at a price that's like reasonable, you know. Because like we can go to a guitar show and buy a bunch of stuff that's there, but if the end price isn't reasonable, it's never gonna sell, and it was the whole thing was pointless.
SPEAKER_02So you guys have outgrown that space. You have a new space opening.
SPEAKER_00Well, yes. So we it was a long road to get there. It's like teenage frank to now.
SPEAKER_05Well six years.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we've been in our current location since 2019. Um we shrunk in square footage going from the junction into that space. And I knew that going into it. And um I think I was just so over the landlord and that whole situation that I was just like, this space is still in West Seattle, it's on California. It's not in any way, shape, or form ideal. Um, it was uh it was the building was two separate retail spaces, one of which was a restaurant at one point one point, and the other was a pet grooming business. And we like gutted that and turned it into a guitar shop.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_00So I kind of went into that knowing it wouldn't be a forever thing. I had hoped it would, but I knew that if we continued at the trajectory that we were at, that it probably wouldn't be a forever thing. Um, but it was like this is here right now, this will work, let's just do it. And um so what what I didn't see was the massive growth. And when I say that, like we didn't going into that, we didn't do any new stuff. Um, you know, the pandemic was really terrible for a lot of businesses for instrument retail. Yeah, I mean, I mean I hate to say it, but it was like kind of the opposite. It was it was crazy. Um, and that fueled, you know, this growth that we weren't anticipating. Um, with that growth is like, well, there's you know, we've used up this much of the wall space for guitars, so now we're gonna use up this much, and then and then we don't have any more wall to put guitars on, so we're gonna put them in the corner, and then you know, all the guitars have cases, and then there's bubble wrap and boxes, and everything's gotta go somewhere. And it quickly we quickly realized that this isn't this isn't gonna work for a long time. It's not sustainable. It's not sustainable. So we started looking for something else, and you know, it's almost like comical the amount of times we've moved, but each time it's been for a different reason. And you know, someone I was talking to Chad, who owns the owns the base shop, I was like, hey, think we should move this thing again. He's like, You're crazy. I was like, dude, we don't have any space. Like, what do you what do you want to do? You know? It's like all right, well, just let me know if you what what you find, you know, because I'm always kind of like looking for things. And so we looked at a spot in the West Seattle Junction, which is where we were previously, that we kind of almost made happen. And um that didn't end up working out, which was fine. And kind of just kind of kept casually looking, and the building that we're getting ready to move to um came up release and I live around the corner, so I drive by it just about every single day. Can you walk there? I can walk there. You're gonna walk to work? Yes. We'll see. Maybe I'll skateboard. But nice.
SPEAKER_04So sick.
SPEAKER_00Um so it came up release, and we wanted to be in a situation where we were um where we owned the the property that the business operates in. And they before it was up release, they had the building up for sale like the previous year. Um, but it was still the sale was contingent on the uh business that was in the retail space still being there. And that wouldn't work if we wanted to move the store there. So I kind of just like didn't it, you know, out of sight, out of mind. So when I saw the commercial space in the building come up release, I was like, let's talk to these people and bango. Yeah. Um and that was May of last year. Dang that this kind of the ball started rolling. So um so we went through all the motions and uh and after a few months of back and forth and back and back and back and forth, um we uh I closed on it and um the building's a hundred years old, so it needed a lot of things, right?
SPEAKER_04Because we do electrical.
SPEAKER_00We did have to do some electrical. Uh we had to do we had to put a roof on it, which was a lot.
SPEAKER_04Inexpensive.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so cheap.
SPEAKER_04So cheap. I'll take two.
SPEAKER_00Uh we had to put a roof on it. We had to do new siding, we had to do new plumbing. It kind of needed like a lot. And um, a lot of that was done before we had like announced that we were moving. Like that was kind of all happening in like behind the scenes. Um the business that was in there previously was Mud Bay, which is like a pet you know, pet store. Um they uh moved out in February of this year and between, you know, last August and February, we were like, what do we want to do with this space? You know, d we'll you know, the last few times we've moved, we've had kind of like a formula of what the store looks like and the vibe and everything. And I could walk into this new space and and do that myself. We'll paint the walls white, we'll put the the guitar racks up and that's what we'll do. And I didn't want to do that. I I just didn't you know I really wanted to be I felt like this was our forever home and I felt like I'm not moving this again and I would like to be really thoughtful about how it looks and um in tension with everything.
SPEAKER_02Totally absolutely I was gonna say from the very beginning of walking into the first location and looking at the website it felt like a singular experience. Like the website felt like the store the store felt like the website and it was the first shop that I had ever been to like I mentioned Pro Guitar Shop earlier because they both for at the time had elevated experiences online and then the shop but they didn't look the same stylistically.
SPEAKER_00And that wasn't a dig on the way that our our stores have looked in the past at all. Like I was really happy with how how they looked I think we just wanted to like up that a little bit.
SPEAKER_04So you are looking for the customer to walk in and have an actual experience totally yeah that was that was the goal and I'm not uh a design oriented person.
SPEAKER_00Um so you know the thought was like well how are we going to do that? Um so we looked into hiring a designer and um we partnered with a company called Design Well Spent that um has done voodoo donuts and uh coffee shops, restaurants, um some other retail businesses and I was like hey I have a guitar shop and we're moving into a new guitar shop and I'd like you to design the space I was like this is what the store looks like now these are some like ideas of we want the what we want the new store to look like and um I kind of felt like sheepish about it. I'm like you know like we're hiring a designer that feels kind of weird you know um it's big boy stuff though right yeah um so we did and we went back and forth a few times and we kind of landed on what the store's gonna look like and since February we've been building it and I'm like over the moon with how it looks.
SPEAKER_04How close are you at the time of this filming?
SPEAKER_00So we are a week and a half from opening the new store right so we're we're if if this is baseball we're running from third base to to home base and we're about halfway there. Um we're at the point where it feels like all of the little things that you know wow little things are kind of coming together and um it's really really really beautiful and I feel like this shop is my love letter to the shops that I grew up working in, the shops around the world and the country that I admire as somebody that loves guitar shops. And um I think that this it's gonna it's gonna look a lot different than how our store looks now. I can't wait to see it.
SPEAKER_02And we were joking that people are gonna be like Frank sold out I haven't been in the shop yet but from people that I know who have been by and been able to be inside they have boasted I'll say I'll use the word boasted that it will be probably in their estimation also to be fair the most beautiful guitar shop in the country.
SPEAKER_00I mean that's kind of the goal right but there's a lot of really great guitar shops around the country and when I say this is my love letter to those shops like I really mean it like I love a lot of the shops around the country that's this is you putting your best foot forward for this shop. And I think that the goal from day one with hiring that designer was to create a space that if you took all the guitars out and all the amps out to create a space that looks great on its own and then merchandise it and make it into a guitar shop. So with that there was obviously an immense amount of thought with how what what it looks like the materials that we're using um and with that came a uh massive cost.
SPEAKER_02Of course is it very modern vibes um you'll have to see it.
SPEAKER_00Okay and you have to tell me what you think.
SPEAKER_04We will link down below in the description because people will be able to come to this yes by the time this episode airs. So we will uh we will link down below in the description if you'd like to go and uh check it out for yourself.
SPEAKER_00Um I think it it turned out really great and um shout out to our buddies John Jonathan Wade and um John Robertson who have built the the space. Johnny worked for me uh as our product photographer like years and years and years before he go before he got into construction and um then he went and played in a band called the Drowns oh yeah guitar in the drowns for a little while um and has always like been somebody that's like into tinkering with things and I was like hey do you want to like come build the new shop? It's like this is what it's supposed to look like can you build that? I love it. I can't wait to see it. It's it's great. Um so fantastic Frank sold out Frank bought in Frank bought in yes I don't know I think it's awesome and I think that um wanting to be again thoughtful about like all right we're not moving this thing again um all of the things that we wanted to do in the past that we haven't let's just do it you know and um yeah what can you divulge about I think a week and a half like it'll be open by the time this comes out um we again with being thoughtful of the design and what it looks like we also wanted to be thoughtful of things that customers have asked for over the years. One of those things was a an acoustic room which we have never had the the store has always been a just a big open space. We put an acoustic room in the new space that caters to our acoustic clientele. The showroom is roughly 3600 square feet. Oh maybe and then there's double that for storage so all of the bubble wrap and the boxes and stuff is going to be hidden on the site. There's a uh like a pedal I I guess I want to call it like enterprise area that has a pedal demo station and a bunch of really thoughtfully laid out effects. We built a vintage room in the new store that just caters to our vintage customers. I I've always tried to in our store now and other stores have always just kind of sprinkled things in together. Yeah. So we often get people that are like where's all the vintage stuff you know so we're like all right well let's let's put them all in like one spot in the store so when somebody's shopping for that they can have that really cool experience.
SPEAKER_04What is the year of vintage cutoff?
SPEAKER_00That depends on who you ask. I mean I'm I'm 40s link down below in the description if you uh want to argue I'm gonna have a different answer than maybe somebody that's in his 60s. I think a lot of people will say like 1965 is one. I I don't really necessarily agree with that.
SPEAKER_04I think some people say like the 90s some people I've seen 93 vintage in my I've heard people say 25 years.
SPEAKER_02That's a really common one too is the vintage cutoff. That was 2001.
SPEAKER_04I hate this timeline.
SPEAKER_02Shut up about 25 years.
SPEAKER_00I think that you get a different answer to the do you guys have a hard cutoff? Not necessarily I mean I think that there's in curating that room there's stuff that we think belongs in there and stuff that doesn't. I think a guitar that was built in 2012 probably doesn't have a place in there.
SPEAKER_04If you can Google the original press release for a guitar it probably shouldn't go into the vintage room right?
SPEAKER_00Yes. But a guitar maybe built in 1982 I think has a place in there?
SPEAKER_04Yes what about 1995? I think so Les Paul standard.
SPEAKER_00I think so yeah I mean that's how old is that 95 2005? 10 years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah now that you're here on now let's get started with the podcast. The real reason you're here Yeah that's right we're gonna wheel and deal is that we want that studio standard or studio custom.
SPEAKER_00There's a good story with that guitar. And I'm pretty sure I've told both you guys the story before you the one on display?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. His guitar? The one that's not for sale yes to say like that's literally not for sale.
SPEAKER_02Everything's for sale.
SPEAKER_00That's right. So actually so in this new vintage room so I have been like hoarding guitars for the last since we knew that we were building this new store. We've been kind of hoarding stuff that we knew was going to live in that room that we haven't put out for sale. So there's going to be like a pretty sizable amount of instruments that you haven't seen in the store or on the website that are going to be hot dog there. We were even saying like let's just put them in the room and not put them on the website. And the the business side of me is like that's stupid because you're cutting your you know potential buyer base like way down. But uh I think that it's a good way to get people in the door. It's giving love to the locals. So if you want to see this stuff you got to come in the case a try.
SPEAKER_04Yeah damn it my credit card already is crying.
SPEAKER_00But there's some there's some gonna be some cool stuff in there. Okay. So the vintage room, the acoustic room, the pedal station um you know all from the uh um how do you say this uh business side of it um we're gonna have a loading dock which is not something we had in the past so all of all of our shipping and receiving will happen in the back. Right now all of the boxes come in and out of the front door which is a nightmare. That's awesome. So that's not necessarily something that's like an elevated customer experience. But um there won't be a bunch of boxes and clutter in the front of the store which I like. We're we um worked with uh a neon sign company called Noble Neon and they're installing a massive neon sign in front of the shop uh next week right before we open um I feel like there's a lot of cool Seattle history in neon signs. Yeah and uh Anthony Bender that works at the store when we were talking about like what the new store is going to look like he's like we need to have a neon sign. I don't want to do a neon sign he's like we should do a neon sign yeah and uh we kind of went back and forth and he was like there's a lot of Seattle history and you know he said what I just said so I kind of like went down the rabbit hole I was like fuck he's right so we decided to do a neon sign. Um there's a lot of companies in Seattle that do those we decided to go with a smaller one and um I at least from the renderings it should look great. I'm sure it's not up yet but yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm so excited for this what day of the week is the sixth uh Saturday.
SPEAKER_00So Saturday the sixth and Sunday the seventh is going to be the grand opening weekend. Tell me about the events of the weekend. So um there are some really cool if you love guitars and amps and we don't really we're not really into that if you love free stuff this is like the the this is the event for you.
SPEAKER_02Free guitars and things free guitars.
SPEAKER_00So um Saturday um we're doing a giveaway um sponsored by our friends at Fender two rock uh uh electroharmonics jhs I don't think we're loaded to a Ernie Ball of these companies there's a lot something could fall off a loading dock they literally have a loading dock now so we're giving uh on Saturday we're giving away an American vintage stratocaster a two rock amp uh a bunch of pedals as like a bundle as a single thing as a single thing so all you need to do to win that is show up and put your name in the hat uh we're gonna draw the winner for that Saturday night before we close uh and then Sunday we're gonna do it all over again um we're giving away a Gretsch Bryan Setzer model signed by Brian actually signed by the man it's a bad day to be a hot dog um we're giving away a magnetone uh baby m80 combo signed by Billy Gibbons and pedals from those brands that I brought up um to win Sunday's bundle you have to be present Sunday and you have to put your name in the hat and we'll draw the the winner on Sunday um we're doing a ribbon cutting uh Saturday morning at 945 with uh West Seattle Chamber of Commerce and we're giving away uh tote bags that have the new BigMuff2 in it um some Thunder Road swag some Ernie ball swag some Gibson swag to the first 30 people online. So if you think people are gonna stay overnight for the yeah I mean a free BigMuff like dude yeah you know all you gotta do is show up.
SPEAKER_01So that's so sick.
SPEAKER_00We're doing some cool stuff. I'm I'm really excited about it. Um a lot of those brands that I had I just mentioned are friends of ours and partners of ours and we're really grateful that they great brands um wanted to jump on and get behind us moving into this new space. Um yeah somebody's gonna get some some folks are gonna get some really cool stuff. Dang amazing it's amazing.
SPEAKER_02Is there is there capacity for doing clinics or performances in this new space?
SPEAKER_00So being that we're gonna have more showroom space um that's that was something that was kind of like high up on the want list um for having a new space um we've been so knee deep in getting this space ready that has kind of taken a back burner just in terms of planning but that is something that we are planning on doing we want to do clinics with the brands we partner with we want to do acoustic performances with some you know bands and artists that we love.
SPEAKER_02We really want to make this space um more than just you know a guitar shop a hang a hang yeah we want people to hang out and feel at home and great um yeah how exciting very very exciting we'll be there I hope so I'm gone yes um yeah what else Frank congratulations that's a a mountain of work and let uh let's just take a little bit of a timeline here this is 15 years so from a basically a hair salon like a two chair hair salon sized yeah spot so to this 20 uh 2026 was our 15th year as a company um it doesn't feel like it's been that long I can just you know I mean everybody says like time flies when you're having fun uh I really love what I do um I get the opportunity to connect people with tools to make music um thing maybe a guitar that they've always wanted um I get to see guitars that I've never thought that I would see you also get to keep guitars I get to get a guitar um it's it's it's a lot of fun I'm I'm really blessed to have like a a cool job I can testify to this because when I first moved back I was in the shop every day because I uh don't have a job and so what am I gonna do? I'm gonna go hang out and bother these guys and so you and uh Bender rolled up and you were like okay you're gonna play these two guitars these three guitars it might have been three guitars and you guys were so excited those were the Thunderpods and I had no idea what was going on and I and I was like well I think this one and you guys had a whole discussion but those were like you were getting down to which particular pickup was going to go in.
SPEAKER_00So it's not it's a very thoughtful process you guys go through when you are making a custom limited run for Thunder that was when we were coming up with the specs for the Jackson Custom shop Thunder Road exclusive guitar that we have which is called the Thunder Mod. And it's a Sandimas body with a um basically a strat headstock and neck um and uh uh Nitro relic finish Lawler pickups shout out to our friends at Lawler um uh fuwn bridge components and whatnot um those guitars fucking rule they're awesome they're so cool um we've done a number of them in uh two humbuckers single humbucker um Floyd Rose classic tram um an array of different finishes and uh graphics um people have been really receptive to them um you know I think a lot of times when people think of the Jackson brand they think of like the the classic Jackson headstock um if you dig way far deep into the Jackson lore a lot of the early ones had strat head socks so um and were called the strat head so we wanted to kind of pay homage to that and they're awesome they're they're a lot of fun um I think that they despite looking like they appeal to one guitar player I think that they appeal to a a pretty wide variety of musicians. And um we've sold a number of them to really well known guitar players that have deals with other companies and like choose to play those. Yeah it's a cool it's a cool guitar.
SPEAKER_02Even the light in your eyes is different when you are talking that's how I know I believe you when you are getting excited about guitars it's a cool one. Guitars are sick.
SPEAKER_00Guitars are sick they're pretty cool they don't suck.
SPEAKER_02Well some guitars suck but most of them are are pretty great absolutely yeah guitars are like pizza like when they're great they are great and when they're bad they're still pretty good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah they still you know fair fair still pretty good still a guitar. What's the best pizza in Seattle? Oh don't ask me I can't have pizza well I haven't I don't remember the last pizza I had but I I think uh what is um what is the place that started up on Capitol Hill the Pagliacchi's no uh I don't want to disparage any pizza okay that's fair but I think my favorite is some of that wood fired stuff okay yeah the bubble crusted sort of like you know uh there's a spot around the corner from the new shop called Mio Posto that's uh a woodfire spot it's pretty good wonderful all right thank you guys congratulations thanks for having me dude thank you so much a lot of fun I really appreciate it a lot of the uh the band talk like I feel like I obviously that's in my mind and I remember a lot of that but like rehashing it and you know a lot of that stuff hasn't come out of my mouth in like a long time.
SPEAKER_02So it's pretty cool yeah. Come give me some I can't wait to see this I know I'm
