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The Riffs, Beards & Gear Podcast
Episode 4 - Josh Middleton (Sylosis, Architects)
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He’s the mastermind behind some of the most crushing riffs in modern metal. This week, we’re joined by the incredible Josh Middleton of Sylosis and Architects. We dive deep into his approach to songwriting, the evolution of his signature tone, and when to dip your midrange!
I don't care about cupping the mic for like screaming vocalists, they kind of do it. And I'm like, it's part of the sound. Like Chino does it all the time. He does it on record. He tracks with a 58. Like, you're gonna stop it and say, like, no, you're not allowed to do that. It's like it's part of the sound.
SPEAKER_01In the control room.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00Terry Date style.
SPEAKER_01I made a record with Terry Date.
SPEAKER_02So sick. We're trying to get him to do we need to have him on this podcast. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01We'll get him. We might have to go to him.
SPEAKER_02We will go to his house. Sure. Where's he?
SPEAKER_01He's he lives in like Woodenville.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, his studio is all vintage oak. Yeah, I feel like I can see panelling and it's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01It's above his garage. Is it? Yes. Damn.
SPEAKER_02Terry Day. That guy has the craziest stories. He did a record with one of my friends, and I got to I got to go there for one day to help doing uh gang shout vocals. And I got to uh amazing. He was like, you can ask me one Pantera question. Just one. I was like, he was being funny, but I was like, all right, tell me a story you've never heard of. Um, or that I've never heard about Dime. And he went, he thought for a second. He was like, during uh Far Beyond Driven, Dime would get bored, and so he somehow in the little nickel one ads found one of those little go-kart racers. And whenever he was done tracking her his parts, he'd go, Alright, I'll be out in the parking lot. Uh let me know when you need me. And he would sit there and just do donuts for hours. Amazing. Just donuts and with a beer, and just sit there and go in circles for hours on end.
SPEAKER_01I told you the Cantrell story with Cantrell like parked his truck at Dimes house, or no, at Vinny's house, maybe one of their houses. And they're like, you know, legendary pranksters. And Jerry left his truck there and like went to DFW and flew somewhere. And when he came home, they had kitted his entire truck with every they had jacked it up and put every light and a light bar or roll like every ridiculous thing. Yeah. And then like did the same thing in the yard. I guess they were always getting complaints, just like tearing the neighborhood up. But I think they they wrecked the truck and then just bought him a new one. Like those guys, yeah, yeah. Give a fuck.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that tracks. Uh, I guess we started the podcast. I guess so. At this point, speaking of Pantera, yeah, uh, we have Josh Middleton from Pantera from Pantera. New announcement, everyone. No, just kidding. Um, Josh Middleton, thank you so much for hanging out, man. Thanks for having me. You uh you are on tour right now from uh or with Bleed from Within. That's right. Of course, you're in Silosis and R essentially Silosis. Um how's the tour going?
SPEAKER_00Amazing, yeah, it's been really good. Um uh us and bleed from within been out for we're halfway through now, like two and a half weeks. Yeah, just amazing. Um this is like it's it's nice to be out here doing like a main support slot where we can have full production and because we share drummer as well with Bleed from Within. Oh, that's right. Like we've got the drum riser, we don't need to sell up in front of anyone, we've got a lot of space. That's nice. Sharing lights.
SPEAKER_02How's he doing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know. Yeah, no, he's doing great. He's he's a powerhouse.
SPEAKER_02I don't know how he physically can do that every single night.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, it was up to him, like it was his choice. Makes sense.
SPEAKER_01Save some bucks on work permits too.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, visas are pricey, sharing all crew and everything.
SPEAKER_01So it's Wow, it's that's cool.
SPEAKER_00It's it's not a co-headline, it is their headline, they're like killing it right now, but um for all intents and purposes, like we're sharing same bus, same crew, like the rig, like the lights and stuff. So it's it's it's nice in that regard. It's very uh cushy, uh very comfortable tour.
SPEAKER_02That's cool. I mean, yeah, you should take that tour everywhere just to make it easy and simple.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's great. I mean, I I love touring those guys. We've we've been friends with them like I don't know how long, like 20 years or something.
SPEAKER_02Damn. Yeah, they're crushing right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they are, they are. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But it's I love seeing a group of actual, genuine, nice human beings really get their their success, their hard deserve. Yeah, yeah. Um we used to bump them in in our in our tour bus constantly um when the first record came out. It was just yeah, that's a great band. Shout out to Bleed From Within. Yeah. Um Okay, I want to talk to you about we're gonna talk about guitar stuff. You are a man of many, many hats. You are technically, I can call you a YouTuber.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's how I feel about it. Yeah. The things you have you gotta do these days. Um but that's been really cool to see and watch because you are one of the few guitar channels that I still watch because it's very informative and it's not bullshit, and it's so um I hate saying the term value added, but there's a lot of good stuff, and there's actually genuine good information in your videos.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And uh, you also have everyone killing their their 6K. So thanks for that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, yeah. That video did well for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, all the printed guitar tones I get from Mixie now. I'm like, where's the 6K? I'm like, well, Middleton says 6K.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I don't like it personally. I mean, it's yeah, there's no right or wrongs with this stuff.
SPEAKER_02It's like I thought we were I thought we hated 4K guys. Oh no, we do still hate 4K. Okay.
SPEAKER_00I I love 4K. That's I like 4K. Yeah. I mean, Nolly, uh, Nolly get good, me and him are very close friends, and I've learned a lot from him. But he was also one of those people that's like, yeah, 4K, 3K, just like it's bad. That's how he came up. Just and then I was like, that's where I put all my like kick attack. And then he was like, Oh, I'm gonna try that. I was like, Yeah, yeah, that's I mean it it it's all kind of uh personal preference. Like, I have a very specific era of metal production that I kind of look back on that I'm trying to bring into the what is your favourite? Um, I like the late 90s kind of stuff when production really started getting good and still holds up to this day. Like the Sneep stuff? Yeah, the Sneep stuff, like The Gathering by Testament. I was yeah, um loads of that stuff. I I really like Anthems of Rebellion by Arch Enemy, that mix. Uh Scott Atkins, who's a producer from the UK that we worked with a lot, used to be in a band called Stamping Ground that worked with Andy Sneep. And that's a record that I love, like really thrashy, E-flat guitar tone. And just back then guitar tones uh were just meaner to me. But it's it's a tuning thing, I think. Really that's what it comes down to.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so going all over the place now. Let's talk. Well, no, okay, let's talk that's Segsway perfect because I wanted to bring this up because even from the beginning of Silosis, um, you know, that was that was kind of in my mind where everything started to go being tuned, guitars uh being tuned lower and lower and lower. You didn't do that. No and so then it kind of became its own, like, oh, that's the special thing, because obviously, you know, riff's a riff and it's good no matter what tuning it's in, in my opinion. However, you stayed, you stayed your course.
SPEAKER_00Mostly, yeah. We we're in C sharp now, but we're right again in E flat at the moment.
SPEAKER_02But you're not doing seven string guitars, you don't do eight-string guitars or any any of that, and that actually sounds heavier now in the context, and when everyone's detuning, you sound heavier because you're not detuned. I wouldn't say heavier, they would grooves differently, yeah. It's much tighter feeling.
SPEAKER_00I think two things the guitars can sound meaner because you can afford to scoop some mids out and have like the real bite coming through around like 4K where it's like jing jing jing jing jing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh and have a bit more low end, because the low end's in a different spot, and then when you down tune it, kind of you need more mids to be able to hear the notes, and it's just hard to get that same bite. And I was mixing a friend's band like recently, and he he kept referring to guitar tones that he was chasing, and it was like Decapitate and Gajira, who are in C sharp or D.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he was playing in like G. And I was like, what you're wanting is not possible. That's right. Because it's not only just the where the note is, but I've obviously been an architect getting the string tension, like when we're in G sharp, if you go too thick, it just doesn't sound snappy or just sounds weird.
SPEAKER_02You want a little bit of wow, yeah, right?
SPEAKER_00But if you go too light, you can't dig in and go brum brom brom with your right hand, which is what my friend was like really liking about like decapitating in Gajuria where they can dig in, so you can't really do that. So it there's a whole yeah, I mean there's a lot to explore there, but that's that's part of it. The other thing though, with with being an architects, there was a a tour where most of the architect stuff when I was in the band was when I first started was G sharp and F sharp on a six string. And then we we added in what's um well I had a baritone or a guitar with an ever tune, so it was okay. But there was a tour where we added in an old song, Alpha Omega, which was just in C sharp standard, which is what the guitarists tuned to, and then it was just the low strings that change. And we were like stood out front whilst the um front of house guy was like doing a virtual sound check of like the night before, and going from a song that was in F sharp to C sharp, you really felt the bass again, like in a more like in your chest, so I it wasn't any less heavy, and I think uh like people are scared to tune up because they think they're not gonna be as heavy as the other bands, but I think in a live environment, the bass where the bass sits, like you feel it like in your chest more.
SPEAKER_02I agree.
SPEAKER_00Um so it it's different. I mean, it's all good. Having said that, like some bands that tune super low does sound really heavy as well. I I I would always be like self-conscious. Um if we're doing a tour with you know a band like Whitechapel uh or whoever that's sugar. Yeah, and and you've got to go on either side of them, you like oh, we're gonna sound weak because we're not as low. So I think a lot of people maybe subconsciously have that worry, but I don't yeah, not bothering.
SPEAKER_01What's the heaviest thing you can um think of or recall that's in standard or e-flat?
SPEAKER_00DSI'd. I don't know. I was gonna say decapitated, yeah, that kind of stuff. It's heavy, yeah. Um, I'm sure like there's there's this again on this band Stamping Ground, who they were like a U They're essentially like the UK hate breed in the 90s, they're a bit more metallic, maybe a bit more thrashy, but they were in E-flat. And I told you about this before uh I left. Yeah, I there was this record they did called Carved from Empty Words that came out in 2000, and I heard that as a a young teenager, and I was like, it sounds so heavy. And then in my mind it was always a 5150 because Scott's always had a 5150 in his studio, and I'd seen Stamping Ground Live and they used them. So I was just asking him a few months ago, like what CAD did you use? I need to recreate at this time because it's so heavy, and he was like, Oh, it's it's a 900. I didn't have my 5150 yet, and it's T75s, not vintage 30s, and I was just like, It's the heaviest, what it's such a heavy tone, and it's only an E flat. So that's up there for me, and that's the tone that I'm trying to chase at the moment.
SPEAKER_02Back to Marshall's. Yeah, I think of you as predominantly, and correct me if I'm wrong, like you were a like a 5150, like either EVH or PV, like traditionally speaking, it was your studio tones. Yeah, a lot of them are 5150s, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, admittedly, there's a few reasons why we tune our guitars up and didn't use 5150s and went to Marshalls, because in 2005, 2006 in the UK, I mean Deathcore was definitely coming in then, but generally speaking, you just play local shows, you know, just small shows, and local bands would all be doing the same generic metal core, like as in like Kill Switch Azolay Dying type of metal core, but a lot worse, really generic breakdowns, of course. Every band had a 6505, that's right. So I was just like, oh man, like you know, kill switch are amazing, alive, just breathing, amazing. But I was just like, we need to differentiate ourselves, so it's like we're going to E. It's gonna be more like injustice for all type of riffing, yes, no breakdowns allowed, and I'm gonna stop using PVs and stuff.
SPEAKER_02Conscious decision.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but it was like a knee-jerk reaction, not necessarily because I didn't like being in a lower tuning. I mean, my favorite guitar tone is one of them is like the gathering by testament, which is C sharp, which is what we're in now. Yeah, and it's like the perfect balance where you can still sound thrashy and do the fast stuff, but it's got enough weight that it feels heavy in a different way.
SPEAKER_02That is a rectifier.
SPEAKER_00It is, yeah, apparently straight in with passive pickups.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if I believe straight in.
SPEAKER_00Like, I don't I've heard Sneep say it as well.
SPEAKER_02Really?
SPEAKER_00Depends on the app. Yeah, I I can't believe it when I like have analyzed the time a lot.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so when people say things like that, I want to so this is getting slightly sidetracked, but it does have to do with rectifiers. I was hanging out with Fletcher from Pennywise, who has one of my favorite guitar tones that happens to be a rectifier as well. And he goes, Nope, I don't use any pedals. I don't use any, nope, no overdrive pedals. I'm straight in. And I was like, Cool, okay, well, then what else is your in your signal chain? He goes, Oh, I use the Sennheiser. You know what I do with my Sennheiser wireless though? I put it on plus 36 dB. And I went, that's a boost. Goes, no, it's not. And I went, okay, whatever. Yeah, yeah. But that explains how you let it that sound, right? You're boosting the front end somehow.
SPEAKER_00I I think there's something about those old school Bay Area thrash guys and the way they play, like Eric Peterson, the way they dig in, like, and back in the day, they probably couldn't all afford like modded marshals, and they would just have to like physically make their marshals sound heavy by playing that way. So I can believe that maybe there's no just for that record. I mean, I've heard it from a few people, and Andy Sneep himself. I've got an old Total Guitar Magazine article that I like ripped out in his like like in a leather-bound book. No, but but he's like talking about um that record and he's like, yeah, Eric Peterson straight into a rectifier, no boost. I was like, I can believe it.
SPEAKER_02But what happened during the mix?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, who knows?
SPEAKER_00So Jeff was you can't you can't mix in that attack though. No, right, no, no, no. It's a mushy time.
SPEAKER_02Jeff Loomis did, you know, the Neverborn record with Sneep. Yeah, and he said the sessions were like, I don't know, let's just see what works. And he had this weird old seven string, and he had the OD9, and he had the two-channel rectifier and the blackface uh rack mountain. Yeah, Jeff was like, I didn't even play rectifiers, like I never played rectifiers, and yeah, we plugged into that with his old greenback cab, and there was that sound was and went, okay, cool. You ready? Go. Yeah, we didn't think too much about it. So it's just one of those things where I think now, especially with social media and just the accessibility of all the information, we can obsess all the fun things, which it's fun to do. But like all of our favorite records, they weren't thinking about that at all. Does it sound cool? Yeah, cool, sick. Yeah, let's go. True. That's really interesting to me. Like, I don't know, no one thought about years of cabinets. Oh, don't use mazes that are 2008. Yeah, no, I know. That's a bad year.
SPEAKER_00Like they were probably back then, it was all just good good stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02I want a mesa cab, or I want a martial cab or whatever it is.
SPEAKER_00You do hear stories about like Connor Richardson always being pretty meticulous and like carcass hardwork. They spent ages on the guitar tone and ended up switching to a different studio or something, and still just chasing tone and yeah, I don't know. But yeah. Tone chasing's fun, it is. I I think like I've got to a point now, and like Nolly's the same where me and him had this WhatsApp chat group with our friend James, and we were like chasing a lot of those early 2000s sneep tones or like end of heartache kind of stuff, where it's like how much of that is like crazy detailed EQ, or how much of that is which I doubt, like like Sneap going in, just notching everything, especially back then. There's nowhere, or how much of that is just like the raw sound, and like if you can find speakers and gear from that era, is there something about that that is just inherently sounds that way, and it's gonna sound better? And kind of Nolly's the one that started really deep diving into the production of vintage 30s, and then they switched to China manufacturer, and then there's potentially a difference in the humidity there. Speakers are essentially paper and glue, and being in a really different climate, is that gonna affect things? So that's this is all like Nolly's investigation.
SPEAKER_02It's slightly disappointing that when you go to the manufacturer, like you know, I've had conversations with Slush, and they just go, I don't fucking know. Like, we're just making speakers, man. Or yeah, I mean I know boogie with uh rectifier revisions. Oh man, did you and Mike Mike Benendelli was like, Oh fucking no, like we didn't we didn't document or or keep track of any of that stuff. We're just trying to sell amps and get them out the door, man.
SPEAKER_00I don't know. Block letter thing as well. Again, me, Nolly, and James in this group, we all had block letter 5150s, and we were trying to see what is the sound wildly different. Um sounded pretty similar. I think the main takeaway I got from it is just thicker mid-range, like more 300, 400.
SPEAKER_02I've had like six or seven that sounded varying degrees of flat tire-ish.
SPEAKER_00I mean they're all they're all kind of beat up. I mean, yeah, right, right.
SPEAKER_02I actually got the pleasure of uh uh I got to send my original block letter back to PV, and John Fields went through the whole thing, every single capacitor, yeah, and then sent it back with new old stock Svetlana power tubes as it left the factory with new old stock preamp tubes, and it is so killer sounding.
SPEAKER_00Right, yeah. Um that's the that's the main thing you hear. It's just they just switched the tubes after the block letter revision.
SPEAKER_02And they never biased them, and they were not matched quads either. They didn't have matched quads. They literally, he told me they just threw them in and chipped them out. Right. They never cared about any of that stuff back then. Yeah, we're getting in the weeds, man. This is sick. If you're still listening, I apologize. We will talk about music uh very, very soon. If you're still listening, I'm I'm impressed. No, this is um no, this is this is why we do this to get in the weeds about this stuff. Um, I would love to talk to you about uh the Marshall behind you. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, the Dan Gower modded Marshall, and also apologize for buying it because Yeah, I told the guy that I sold it to to let me know when he wants to sell it and I'll buy it back potentially. Uh and that didn't happen.
SPEAKER_02So apparently as it's in good hands, though.
SPEAKER_00I'm guessing.
SPEAKER_02As I well, thank you. Um, so I was in the UK and I went to Overdrive Guitars, very nice guys, teeny tiny little boutique shop that have unbelievable old marshalls. And they had another newer plexi on top of this one that had the Gower badge. And I went, oh my god, I've never played a Gower before. Yeah, I would love to plug into a Gower. So I played that one, and VMan had been there the day before playing that same one. He was thinking about getting it. I was like, this is pretty good. They're like, well, the one below that's a Gower modded too. And I'm like, oh, really? It doesn't look like a Gower mod, doesn't say Gower on it. And they're like, oh, that's uh that's the Silosis mod amp, is how he said it. Yeah. So I play it, and then his other the other guy comes in and he goes, No, no, that's that was Josh Middleton's amp. And I went, wait, time out. I know this amp.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because I've used to watch the videos obsessively. There's the video of you running through the amp when you had it done.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and then you're using it in the live sessions and all this kind of stuff for dormant heart. Um I was like, no way. I didn't believe him. And they took off the back and there's something. And um, but they got it from the guy who bought it from the guy who used it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, so it's gone through a few different videos.
SPEAKER_02Because there's I only know that because there's another guy that made one you really terrible sounding sorry guy um sounding video with this amplifier about three years ago. Okay. But he also owns your 800 and he also owns your custom.
SPEAKER_01He's a fan, apparently.
SPEAKER_00The Les Paul.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I saw that to a guy from France.
SPEAKER_02Apparently he has.
SPEAKER_00Dan said this is this is this was your thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But the most similar you can get now is the Cali Plus Plus, apparently.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I know nothing about um circuitry, so I I can't tell you any specifics, I can tell you exactly what I was asking for. Um but yeah, that so the 800 was great, but um, as I've said to you, very percussive. And and being in a higher tuning, it was quite up and mid focused and unforgiving if it was it was just a little bit too percussive, no matter how much gain was it up, like you can really saturate it. You always felt the so I wanted to be able to I like to be able to control that a bit more with a pedal.
SPEAKER_02So for example, are you using pedals with this?
SPEAKER_00Always, yeah, yeah, we both. Did. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Um Jesus. And like th there's certain amps out there now that some I won't say what it which one, but there's one that a lot of people like using, and it to me it's too percussive. I would rather the amp was a bit thicker and fuller and have the option to dial in with a pedal.
SPEAKER_02You can't untight an amp.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, yeah, yeah. So this one I was I had an orange Thunder Verb which was really thick but was not remotely percussive and just very doomy stonery. And I was into that kind of stuff again at the time, like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to I don't know, I was just listening to a lot of Mastodon and just wanted to be a bit more like sludgy at that period. And um, so this one I was like, can you do me something? Again, I wanted a a plexi looking app just because of Brent Hines, just because I was like, it looks cool, and I'm obsessed with quite this guy. Um so it wasn't anything specific about having like a JMP, it was just like I just thought it looked cool, okay, like versus an 800. Yeah, um, so I got him to essentially make it thicker and warmer sounding, uh, and then I can tine it up with a pedal. So it's and having what I would describe, same with the 800, as a P V resonance, like grounded to the floor low end, because a lot of marshalls kind of the low end it doesn't have that earth-shaking, like thickness. Whereas when you crank the bass up a lot on a regular marshall, it just kind of gets more kind of woo woolly, maybe. I was gonna say woolly. Whereas a PV resonance control is a more of a thump, which is like a bit further.
SPEAKER_02And in the power section, not in the pre-amp, right? So that's really has that extension. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_00So yeah.
SPEAKER_02This amp, so I buy it. So I I played it. They told me where it came from and what it was. I basically, my dad was with me, and he goes, I've heard you play a lot of different amps. Like that amp is unbelievable. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00It does a lot as well. It does so much because it can do the 800 sound.
SPEAKER_02Yes, it can.
SPEAKER_00So I actually had to ask the the Solosis mod 800 I'm referring to, but I'm sure it can do.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, there's a control on the back called Violence, and I was like, Dan, what the fuck is violence?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he called it that, not me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and um he was like, Oh, that's the fourth game stage that I added. So you can blend that in. Yeah. I'm like, whoa, wait. So there's three game knobs on this damn thing.
SPEAKER_00And the the coolest one, I think, on the back, is it called glass?
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And that's essentially like voicing the cab, like it's just darker and brighter sounding.
SPEAKER_02That's right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Pretty crazy. So I buy it, and then I texted you. Yeah and you were like please don't buy that. I was like, uh, oh shit.
SPEAKER_00Uh it's already with me in the US.
SPEAKER_02I'm like, oh fuck. I I just swiped my credit card guy, and I'm really sorry. You're like, where is that? Like, what where are you? Like, what?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I I needed I don't know, I just had a kid, could could have used the money, and it was just saying, oldest time I can't. Yeah, exactly. And like, um When did you get rid of it?
SPEAKER_02Was it a while ago?
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, 2018, 2019. Probably 2019.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I probably hadn't plugged it in for about three or four years.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I was like, I'm not one of those people that's gonna just keep things. I had like that Lespool that you just referred to. It was a Gibson Lespool access, like a custom one. So really like thinner neck profile and stuff. Kind of a limited run. Yeah, it was just one of those guitars like, yeah, I'm always gonna have that. Then I was like, well, I don't play it anymore. Why am I keeping this? I'm not one like a gear hoarder in that way. Um, so it was a shame to get rid of both of the goud marshals, but um yeah, it would be nice to have it now, but I don't but no, yeah, it's it's a it's a really cool sorry, no no. I mean, um I can't remember how I came across Dan. I think I was just wanting wanting to have a Marshall just because everyone's using 5150s and stuff, but wanting a bit more 50-150 in my Marshall. So I was on YouTube just looking at mods and I just came across Dan. So I mean not to take all the credit for like who's using them now, but like I remember you were the first guy I ever heard using his stuff. Yeah, I don't remember anyone like in a band that I was aware of. I mean, Dan had been doing it for a long time, and he's very young as well. I think he might be younger than me.
SPEAKER_02He was one of the first guys that were outside of the Freedman's and all of the older guys of the new school of mod guys.
SPEAKER_00I think he's also was also in touch with Friedman and maybe was offering similar mods, and like was I think Friedman really helped him out just like I didn't know with some stuff. I mean, in terms of just being like, Oh, these are my little bit of guidance, yeah. I think so. I could be speaking outline, I haven't spoken to Dan in a while, but lovely guy, incredible player, which is key. Yes, because there's so many people that fix amps, mod amps and stuff that are just so super into like the tech and tinkering. But like, how can you without saying like a you know, how can you really know good tone if you're not a good player? Damn, you know, really he's an incredible guitar. So that that also sold it to me, like uh going to him and asking about mods because I was just watching him just rip and I was like, okay, he's gonna get whatever I say. I can talk to him about tone and not understanding circuitry because I don't um no know how that stuff works, but then yeah, I was using it from I think I got it the first one in 2011, then the 800 maybe or 2012. And then I think Nolly came to see, I think it was on toward Bleed from Within, actually, Us Bleed from Within and Devil Driver, and Nolly came and checked out. I was like, I need to get one of these, and then I think Nolly speaks to Andy Sneep, and I think I don't know if Nolly introduced it to Sneep or not.
SPEAKER_02Because now that's all Judas Priest uses is Gower, yeah, yeah, Gower Marshalls.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if I can take full credit for that, but I don't I don't maybe give you full credit. Maybe Sneep like found out about it on him by himself or something. I don't know. But I mean Dan, I can't take credit because Dan's the one that does the incredible work, and like I found out about it myself because he puts it out there on the internet and yeah, does incredible stuff. So yeah, I'm uh I'm jealous, but as long as you don't, you know, mess with the Transformer and stuff and start. No.
SPEAKER_02No, so when uh so when Pat and Tim were here, I told him the story about it, and Tim so badly was like, I'm gonna text Josh and tell him I bought it for super cheap. I'm like, no, no, please don't do that. Like, I'm gonna feel I feel so bad. Like, don't mess with them.
SPEAKER_00Me and Tim absolutely rip into each other. It's fine. I that's what I hear.
SPEAKER_02That's hilarious. Yeah. Um can we talk about your software company and please, yeah. Any and your drum software, your incredible, incredible drum software. Thank you. Which, much like Dan being a player, so he can then mod stuff. I feel like you being a player and you being in the space of mixing now and doing all these post-production things gives you a better ability than a larger company, like some you know, big conglomerate or whatever, um, to make a better product, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it was thank you so much. It was it's born out of necessity of um nothing out there doing it what I want. Yeah, like I said, I'm really close friends with Nolly, uh, and I feel like you know his drum stuff's incredible, but it's um you know, periphery sorry, Nolly. No, no, no, no. It's just it's it's it's a different um sort of drama, you know. It's like shoes. His periphery mixes are incredible, and I pick his brains about stuff, not obviously does way more than just periphery, but just to give an example. Whereas I'm still like I go for way more like metallic stuff that he probably doesn't listen to as much of that kind of like traditional or thrashy mixes as much as I like really am into that, and I'm trying to for my own mixes bring in some of the the elements of the mixes I love, like Andy Sneep and Colin Richardson from the early 2000s, but bring it into a more modern age where it's still a bit thicker and not like a one-shot machine gun sound, right? Uh, and try and try and make those one-shine gun sounds from my youth that I love the sound of, and but then make multi-velocity layers of snares so it doesn't sound like a machine gun, but you get the same. I don't know, yeah. So I it's just different different taste. So yeah, basically for me, the the types of drum sounds that I like I couldn't find just out there. And I just like stuff just to be ready to use and ready to mix. The the drum plugin was never meant to be a drum plugin. I went into a studio to create my own TCI files for my mixes, and then I was like, I guess I'll sell them as well. So yeah, so if anyone doesn't know what TCI files are, uh Slate Trigger is the most commonly used drum uh sampler, I guess, for mixing. And it you don't necessarily have to just trigger one singular drum sample, you can make these TCI files that are every velocity layer of a snail or a kick or a tom, just like in a drum instrument. Right. So it'll trigger random sounds and different velocities, so it will sound like a real performance, even if you've completely re-triggered the sound. So I wanted to blend in like certain one-shot samples that I like, but only in the hardest velocity layers. And if you're working with various different drum samples in a mix, getting them all in phase is one thing, but then when you're rim shotting, you get it in phase, and then when you do softer hits, it's out of phase with the one shot. Right. So I was like, I need to make my own samples where all of this is just done, they're all pre-processed. One shots are only in at the hardest layers, and it's I can just mix a record and be like, oh, that snare sounds terrible. I've been sent an awful drum uh recording by a an unknown band who can't afford great studio.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna drop in this sample, and it makes my life so much easier as opposed to loading in tons of different samples, phase aligning them, processing them all.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00So that's what I did. And then the guy at the studio that I use, Pete at Middle Farm, which is a big studio in the UK, yeah. Um, was like, why don't you just make a virtual instrument? And I was like, I can't afford that. I'm just me. I don't have that kind of money. And uh I did some digging, found some uh well, found one guy that I used Moises who coded the kit for me. I was like, Oh, I I can't afford this, like it's not that big of an ordeal to do. I went back to the studio and did symbols and then it became ultimate heavy rums.
SPEAKER_02Damn.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And I appreciated it because it was like you set out, it was something different because I love Nolly and I love get good, and I own and love all of their stuff, but predominantly everyone's using their shit.
SPEAKER_00And well, that's another thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so then things come on, even Octane and stuff. I'm like, I oh, I fucking that snare sample or that kick sample. I'm like, oh, there it is. And so to have an alternative that is totally different from anything that Get Good has has been so lovely and so nice. So thank you for that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, again, like I love Nolly and Get Good. So I'm absolutely I just want to make sure made that very clear. But yeah, I mean Nolly's it's funny, like he'll I'll send him a mix. He's like, that sounds like invasion. I don't know if those are real drums, and then I'm listening, I'm like, Oh yeah, and he can just obviously he can because he's the one that's engineered and mixed all those sounds. Um yeah, those those sounds make their way onto records. But um, yeah, I I just wanted stuff for for my own taste. Um the middle tone stuff, MDL, whatever you want to call it, is yeah, what do you call it? It's essentially my surname, Middleton, but I just take a bunch of the letters out and add E at the end, middle tone. So I just say middle, middle middle, yeah. You call it MDL tone or MDL or I just call it middle tone. Um but anyway, it's I'm I'm kind of focusing in on a very specific niche of just my type of production.
SPEAKER_02Do you ever foresee in the future uh any future products that will expand um outside of those things um if you start to work on different stuff? Or are you always gonna be kind of centric on the other?
SPEAKER_00I think I think I want to just occupy the metal space. Okay, you know, um you know, GGD do like fusion and stuff and and then pop punk and everything. Um because I'm the one that's doing everything at this point in time, I only see it being a metal focused.
SPEAKER_02Would you ever do just heavy? Okay. So would you ever do something like um this is just me giving you ideas? Sorry. Um I take 15%. Um would you ever do era specific? Like 80s thrash, 90s, um I don't know, whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I I had a very niche specific idea for the next drum plug-in that I was gonna do, yeah. I am doing, uh which probably won't be out by the time this is, so I'm gonna I can't say too much or I won't. But um after starting the project, I was like, this is probably too niche. At least where my company is I'd rather just yeah, not not yet. I I think that's very cool, but I don't know what the market is like for that. I think if if a band is trying to sound like an 80s thrash band, they want it to be legit and like real drums and sure.
unknownSure.
SPEAKER_00So maybe but yeah, it just obviously that was just an example. I know that wasn't a legitimate, you know, suggestion necessarily to take on. But yeah, that that's probably something I'd like to do. I mean, 90s production is I love it. There's something about like 90s guitar tones. There's a there's another guy that I'm I've hit up before that used to work in a studio like 10 minutes from where I live, and his name's Dave Chang. He recorded this Stamping Ground record that I keep referring to that sound is super thick. He was close friends with Andy Sneep, or they worked together, or Andy let him use his studio to track guitars for that record. But he's another one that had of that era, late 90s, early 2000s, he was maybe slightly more affordable and did not that many big bands. Bands like Earth Tone Nine, Stampin' Ground, these are like kind of UK bands that probably didn't make that make a name up across uh the pond, but um big thick guitar tones. Yeah, and I'm just I'm gonna try and get him around my home studio and pick his brains. One of the things he was telling me was like used to drive the cab super hard so like it would get rid of any of like the harsh frequencies. Because I'm thinking all these guitar tones don't have any like shh whistly frequencies, and now everyone's notching everything out on fab filter, myself included. He was like, just crank the cab so it gets a bit more spongy.
SPEAKER_02Does that also have something to do with tape though? That should be a good thing.
SPEAKER_00Potentially, I mean some of this stuff would have been tape 2000. I mean, that's a weird transitional thing. A data, so it's still tape, isn't it? That's that's another thing potentially. He also said that they would only use like a tube screamer for the certain like wompy riffs, so not on all the time for tracking rhythm guitars.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's interesting, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But just just in general, 90s tones, like there was a lot of thick, really thick, weighty tones, and obviously people weren't down tuning as much. No, so you can get away with it. Like, obviously, I saw the Fit for an Autopsy or like clips, uh when they're talking about guitars being a mid-range instrument. I'm like, yeah, kinda. But it's it depends. Like if you're in fit for an autopsy, I don't know what they're in, like A flat or something or whatever, but super low. Like, you can't afford to be really scooped and have a ton of low.
SPEAKER_02Not at all.
SPEAKER_00But if you're in E, you can scoop those mids.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And I do scoop those mids. Yeah, it really depends on the tuning, I think. Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Also, I kind of get uh well, so I grew up and I started playing in the summer of '94, and I started playing just as everything was getting super scooped. California Smile Metallica Black album.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Just mids were the most uncool thing ever. And it's it's funny to see that kind of completely reverse, and now it's kind of going back, thanks to folks like yourself. They're like, no, guys, it's okay to take out some of the mids. Like, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00I was just hearing so many like quacky duck guitar tones. Like, wow, why I hate the mid tones. I'd hear people being like, yeah, it sounds pissed. I'm like, oh, it just sounds annoying. Just all mids, just no low mids. Yeah, I mean, admittedly, like if they're all playing like eight strings and seven strings, it's a different, it's different. It's totally different. I kind of view it as a different instrument. I've never really once a guitar gets lower than B, I I've never heard a guitar tone lower than B where I've been excited by it for my personal taste. Like, oh my god, that sounds incredible. It's it's just like a different instrument almost. Not that I don't love low-tuning stuff, like I love cannibal corpse, Mormon Angel, and and and stuff, but um the the guitar tones that I get really like excited by is just like end of heartache, it's just like it's thick, but there's a good like zing jing jing to it or stamping ground, just stuff that's in a higher tuning, uh just for my personal taste.
SPEAKER_02You keep referencing uh talking about uh end of heartache, and that is the first time that I really heard of Framus? Well, layering. Oh, right, yeah, of course. Layering different amps.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. Um first time I heard about like using a boost pedal as well, like a Maxin.
SPEAKER_02OD808, what the hell is that? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was a guitar world thing. I was like, well, I'm gonna buy one of them.
SPEAKER_02Everyone did, yeah. Um, do you layer amps and amp tones on your on the Silosis records? Or are you sticking to predominantly one amp and just doing like a quad track thing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, predominantly quad track guitars, at least these days, the last three albums definitely are quad tracks. Uh Edge of the Earth to Dormant Heart is all just double-tracked Marshalls. Um, I like the quad track sound on Cycle of Suffering. I did two amps. I think it was uh it was either Krankenstein or Rectifier and a 6505 plus, which was the main one. So I thought about getting a crank. Yeah, I got rid of it after a while. That is so specific.
SPEAKER_02I think it's been so long, I'm like, maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly.
SPEAKER_00It I mean, they used a crank on I can tell you a lot of Andy Sneak versions from it.
SPEAKER_02The the second Nevermore, or the the one after um uh Dead Heart in a Dead World. The one after that, Jeff told me it was all Krankenstein. Jeez.
SPEAKER_00Well, yeah, I mean, I was gonna say there was an Aslay Dying record that was Revolution, forget which one, Shadows or Security, maybe. I think it was Shadows, or and then there's uh Arch Enemy Doomsday Machine, which is Krankenstein as well. Really? It's kind of yeah, it's very specific tone, but they're kind of tough to dial in. But yeah, so the um suffering guitar tone, I got Nolly to send me a I didn't have my block letter, uh, a DI because we both have the same SirLoad box. So just the AMP tone, then I could reference his AMP tone through the exact same impulse response, and then I'd check my 6505. Oh, I had a 5150 signature at the time. And the closest I could get to the block letter sound was not my 5150 signature, it was the 6505 plus green channel gain maxed out and mids off, pretty much completely off, and that sounded just like Nolly's block letter. It had that thick lower mids, like 400. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I've heard uh I've heard um the screaming fire bolt from a Valentine record that was all crunch channel of a C2505 plus.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a it's a good tool to have, like that crunch channel. But you uh you forget about how good it is. I mean Machine Head use it as their main. Do they? No. And they use the red channel as their clean time, which is not very clean.
SPEAKER_02What? I didn't know that. Well, like for Burn My Eyes and stuff?
SPEAKER_00I think so. It's kind of pretty crunchy. I mean, you can see like there's a picture of their amp settings that someone took from a I mean like the presence is like nearly on max. Well, that's right. And like yeah.
SPEAKER_02Whoa. That's really interesting.
SPEAKER_00But I I don't know for certain, and then like Rob got his block letter that he owned for The More Things Change, yeah, Bubba and that The More Things Change tone is good.
SPEAKER_02It is really good.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I d that's that's just what I lost after those kind of tones from that era. I mean part of it's probably just like nostalgia, and like I I was buying Kerrang and Metal Hammer getting all these cover mount CDs with all these bands, and that's just what my gateway into heavy music. But when I hear modern guitar tones like we were talking about, just so much mid-range now. Yeah, it's like too much mids. Go back the other way again. The pendulum will swing.
SPEAKER_02How much of a any give like even if you heard a new band now and it's evocative of a feeling of nostalgia for you, does is that does that have more effect than I guess I how much how much of a factor is nostalgia on your taste of guitar tones, but in music, even still when you hear new stuff?
SPEAKER_00I don't think it matters that much, like the nostalgia thing. I can just I just don't like really nasal guitar tones. If I hear like a cool tone that's like just has the bite where I want it and isn't I don't know, it depends on the tuning or the type of band. There's not a lot of bands that do the type of mic music that I gravitate towards, which is kind of odd to me. When I was like younger, like for Solosis back in the day, we were listening to a lot of like Machine Head, Slipknot, Pantera, and then it was like Lamb of God, Chimera, and what I would just refer to as like that middle lane metal. And there's not many bands that just do that. There's loads of great music out there. There's tons, tons of great hardcore, there's tons of great like um death metal or underground stuff, but there's not many just metal bands coming out in that space to me.
SPEAKER_02I'd uh I was talking to a buddy um a couple weeks ago about slipknot records, and I thought it was interesting that if you objectively look at a slipknot record, guitar tone-wise, they're not particularly like crazy or unique sounding. They are just a straight up good middle of the road metal guitar tone. But there's nothing super crazy or like you hear it and you go, Oh, that's definitely that's slipknot. Now you hear the playing, of course, and you're like, okay, well, yeah, know how to play, but like their tones, I wouldn't say are particularly like unique.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean they seem to change like the sound or whoever's producing.
SPEAKER_02I'm referencing like volume three, particularly, or or you know, Iowa.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean they like the first album, Iowa, volume three, they're all completely different tones. It's not like the slipknot tone. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Very, very dialed for that particular batch of songs or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00It's probably just whoever's producing just has more of a not more of a say, but just I mean, I guess accidentally, like, or just the way they've EQ'd it or mic'd it up. Sure. Like the guy's probably like, this is my rig, this is my app, but then how it's mixed or mics can make a huge difference, I guess. Maybe.
SPEAKER_02Do you have a particular favorite guitar tone that you've got on a recording?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, the new record. Yeah, the new record. What did you use for the new record? Uh I used 6505 and an impulse response of one of my cabs. Just because what?
SPEAKER_02Is it the one in the pack? Because I bought that pack and thanks.
SPEAKER_00So I would have just sent that to you. Um uh yeah, the top top right speaker in cab one, which is can you tell me how to utilize how do you utilize those?
SPEAKER_02Because I struggle depending on the amp. Obviously, they're not, you know, any one impulse is not gonna work with everything or whatever, but what do you use in post-processing for your impulses that you made?
SPEAKER_00Because minimal stuff, right?
SPEAKER_02But Over Shell actually tours in sales in with with your impulses.
SPEAKER_00Oh, awesome.
SPEAKER_02Um, and he says he barely does anything to them, but I I find them really raw.
SPEAKER_00Which is cool. Um, yeah, no, I I don't, I mean, it depends how you dial the amp in. If yeah, fair uh my amp, I'm got mids on one.
SPEAKER_02Oh. Okay, well that right there, I don't have that going.
SPEAKER_00The way I see it, like uh a vintage 30 is like all mid-range, and then it's mic's with a 517 57, which is all mid-range. So although it looks like I'm scooping the mids, I'm still on the amp, which I am, they're on one. In the mix, I'll still cut more mids out. And it's not like Pantera scooped, it's still still like plenty of mid-range in there, but because there's such a build-up from a vintage 30 and a 57, you like I see people with like mids like that on a 5150. I'm like, that's crazy.
SPEAKER_02Like off that's where I usually have mine on four on my block letter.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it depends on the it depends on the on the impulse and all that kind of stuff. If you're using like a T75, which has a bigger dust cap, it's a bit more scoop sounding.
SPEAKER_02Typically what I am using is a T75 impulse, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, there you go.
SPEAKER_02And I'll mix it with with a little bit of V30.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I mean, to me, the I made a video on my channel for link down below in the description, guys.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for go check out Josh.
SPEAKER_00Exactly how to dial in the tone on the record. And it is just I mean, I would have I like you? I what that was very recently, it was one of the last ones I did. Oh, okay. Um I I wanted to use a real amp because I just enjoy that process. Me too. But I uh just didn't I didn't have a home studio. I moved house. I don't I've just got a home studio back now that's just been finished. Done? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't enjoy using real cabs if I'm recording a record because if I'm at home and I have to use a real cab, there's I have a dog and like there's too many things to go wrong with moving a mic or I like impulses with real amps.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it I specifically dialed in the well didn't dial in the impulses in the pack, so they sound exactly like the real thing. I've seen so many videos of people making impulses, like this is how you do it, using impulse utility on the Mac, and they just do it and they capture it and they go, There it is. It's like if you A B that against your mic tone, it is way different. Yeah. So the whole point is these sound exactly like the real thing, but I didn't have the means to do that just in my house, um, like a whole dev cranked up amp, reamping. So I used an impulse response, I used position two, which is slightly brighter than I normally go, um, and try to do minimal EQing in the mix. So that I I sort of work backwards from the speaker sound or the impulse response. So I'll record a bit and I know that that's a great speaker mic placement. So then I'll just EQ the amp to fit so treble on about four, mids on one. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh I have never had I I cannot wait to go home and try this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's there's not much to it. And scooping mids again in the mix. That's not something well sometimes it's it's it's not I don't think it's a crazy scoop sound. I don't where are you scooping though? 750 lower? No, the I don't know. On your album Tilmak specifically. One 1.5 read no down, yeah. Oh yes, well both. That's like the really nasal stuff. Yeah. Um, and like James Hetfield used to use those Apex EQs in his rig scooping 1.2 on the black album in his effects loop, I think. And Dimebag used to do that, just get rid of 1.2, 1.5, and then scoop a bit around like 550.
SPEAKER_02Interesting.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and then get rid of a lot of the womph at like 150 or like a bit of a notch. But yeah, I try and do as little EQing as I can, because it just gets weird. That's where people get to go wrong. I think people try and chase I agree because EQ matching is so good now, and you can essentially get a perfect EQ match and just like side-by-side comparison. It's like oh it it does the thing, like it's it occupies the same spaces, but it sounds weird because you're it's you're just messing with phase and it sounds mushy and yeah, odd. So I mean I've definitely over-EQ'd in the past and I've done it in videos that I've made. But um I'm trying to just do everything at the source.
SPEAKER_02Did you mix the new record at home on your Adams?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just in uh what used to be the lounge in the house that I moved into, which I've just got out of that room now. Yeah, uh it was insane. Like the the floor is like doom doom doom, like empty, like no insulation under it, just wood floorboards. And you use monitors or headphones? Monitors, yeah. I had panels like, yeah. I I don't know, I just A-B a lot.
SPEAKER_02You know, referencing other mixes, known good mixes. Yeah, what kind of stuff do you reference?
SPEAKER_00Stuff from the 90s. No, I like Testament the Gathering. Uh I mean I'll I'll go through everything. I I've I wanted to hold up against modern stuff, so I'll reference Nolly's stuff, and Nolly mastered it. Um I don't think he wasn't too like heavy-handed with the mastering, it's not like a night and day difference, but he has definitely like really gone in on mastering, like learning like his mastering chops recently, because he just wants to be able to do it for his own mixes because he's tired of sending a mix back and be like that is frustrating. So he he did an amazing job on that. Um and he he helps, you know, give me suggestions in the mix because you get mixed blind, and I was up against a deadline because we had a headline to all we wanted the record out for. So I was like, you know, late night mixing.
SPEAKER_02So I want to ask you about your output because I'm I'm bringing up your your albums. So this output starting in 2008, conclusion of an age, yeah, 2011, Edge of the Earth, 2012, monolith. That was a busy uh busy year or two for you. Uh 2015, Dormant Heart, and then You're an Architects, yeah. Um, and then you come back to 2020, Cycle of Suffering, 2023, uh A Sign of Things to Come, and then 2026, New Flesh. Where are these songs coming from? Like your output as a songwriter and as a guitar player is pretty pretty nuts, but what's interesting about your music is you can really hear just kind of you growing as a songwriter and as a musician, and you're one of the few bands, Silosis, that honestly, no shade to any of your early stuff, you just get better and better and better. I'm so jealous. What the fuck is that about?
SPEAKER_00Thanks. I mean, I'm I think a big thing for me is I'm just just a huge fan of the music, like this type of music. Um like it's so good, man. Like you just can't lose that enthusiasm. I I definitely hear of a lot of other bands where they they're like, Oh, I don't really listen to much metal, but they're still doing a metal band. So it's like, well, I'm super excited. I I still get like excited listening to records when I from when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_02Like you're still that when you're writing, are you still that 16-year-old kid in your head on your on the edge of your bed plane?
SPEAKER_00In even more so now than before. I'm really trying to channel that and think about that and what got me excited and trying to remember those feelings of the first time I heard Slipknot or the Great Something Tranquil and stuff, where I felt physically like I wanted to trash my bedroom. That's what I'm chasing at all times. Um, but I I think like a healthy uh diet of a lot of thrash and death metal, which is just full of good riffs, and there's like an abundance of excellent riffs in those genres. Um, whereas I think a lot of people that may have grown up more recently just with more kind of generic metal core riffs where it's a lot more of just the rhythms and stuff. Very rhythmic-based. Yeah, with no shade on that, but I think but because I've just listened to so much death and thrash metal where there's just so many riffs, like decapitated. They put out a record called Nihility in 2002, which was huge for us. The amount of riffs is insane. Like it's a literal riff, god tier riffs, yeah. Every other riff, like insane, insane, insane. So, like, yeah, I I'm just I'm just a huge fan, so I'm just taking inspiration from everywhere. But also, I mean, I will say for this uh new record, it's been the most collaborative, though. Uh new bass player Ben used to play guitar in Bangkok Bed in prison, and he's he's a guitarist first and foremost, but he likes playing bass, plays bass in our band. He's also been writing with us. Aliad drummer um is very you know has a lot of input and Connor style writing now, so it's the most collaborative effort we've done. And I I don't want it to just be me, I don't want it to be seen as like a death, mega death kind of like one man. I was gonna ask, is it's not deliberate, but admittedly back in the day I was a bit more controlling. Uh I think that's partly why our drummer Rob left because I was just like, Can you learn this? And then in the studio he'd be do a cool film. I'm like, Can you just go and do a build-up? Here I think he was kind of frustrated, and then I think joining architects were particularly on Holy Hell, I it was mostly like well, there was a some stuff left over that Tom had written, but mostly in terms of writing, it was stuff that I'd written, and then it would go through Dan's funnel. Of course, and um I'd spend a few weeks on a song, and then he'd be like, That's gonna be the verse. This is the chorus, gonna chop that off, get rid of this, and I'll be like, Oh my god, this is like really hard to a little bit of a role reversal, though. Yeah, yeah, and like I but it helps, and like after after like learning to you know have my songs ripped apart and stuff, and just you know, uh learn to deal with that. I I seek it out now more than ever. So like back in the day with producers, it's like, yeah, you just you tell us like how tight it is and stuff, get the tones, but you don't need to tell us about the songs and the structures like I've got this sort of arrogant youth kind of mentality. Whereas now I'm like, please rip into it. Like, tell like I I seek it out more than ever, and I want it to be more collaborative as a band.
SPEAKER_02But your heart was always in the right place, you're always just trying to go for the best song or the best riff, so it's interesting, like you know, from two sides of the same thing.
SPEAKER_00But it's easy to lose perspective, of course. Um I think our manager, um, I mean Ali from Bleed from Within kind of co-manages Silosis and Bleed from Within now, like on a day-to-day level, but um our manager Adam Foster, who I don't know what the roles are now. Anyway, he he was really brutal with me after Cycle of Suffering. He was like, it's a good record, but you could do better. And I was like, I thought it was a pretty good record. He was like, You need like you need to do like a classic metal record, and there needs to be moments in every song where it's like people are gonna remember that, and this is gonna be the bit where like people are anticipating this section coming in. And before I was like, Oh yeah, we kind of just had these meandering song structures, and they they were structured like well, but that got in my head, and I was just like, Yeah, he's right. All the stuff that I grew up listening to, obsessed with um, you know, really anthemic stuff that's super heavy, like Slipknot Iowa or Great Southern Trankil, where it's like the song The Great Southern Tranquil was so heavy, but the chorus where he's just saying the Great Southern Trenco is really catchy, and I was like, Oh yeah, we don't really have like hooks and stuff. I think I was too scared to have hooks.
SPEAKER_02I was gonna ask about that because I listened to basically most of your discography on the drive-in today to refresh myself and far away do you live? And over an hour. Uh well, I was just going through like, okay, I'm gonna pick a couple of songs, and then you know, your last couple of records have you know gotten a little bit more melodic, and it's really nice vocally to hear you kind of go into that space. But is that do you ever write something and go, fuck, can I sing while playing that? Or is that a concern now?
SPEAKER_00I'm more mindful of that. There are songs that we so I not I couldn't ever play them, but we just don't play because it's too hard to do both. You know, I on our first record, there's a song, there was a single called After After Lifeless Years, which everyone's like, when are you gonna play it? And I'm like, I can actually I can sing it. I don't I've done a version of with my vocals on it, but um, it's the verses that are going. Just one note with the vocals doing something opposite. It's just like my brain, I've tried it a few times. If I stuck with it, I could probably get there, but I have way more things I need to work on, like new music or being a dad. Like yeah, there's there's tons of stuff, so I'm way more mindful now. Like I want to uh aim to potentially be able to play everything live. It doesn't come easy to me though. People are like, how do you do it? I'm like, it's boring practice. Someone like Matt from Trivia, like I think he's just about to ask why I think he's like can do anything. He can he can just do it.
SPEAKER_02Whereas I'll do the conversation and I'm sorry before I go to bed.
SPEAKER_00If there's a song, if we're going on tour and play new songs, there's it's mostly probably fine, but there'll be like one riff or one verse or something where I can't do both, and I have to sit there whispering, going, like it's that for weeks. He's doing it again, yeah. I it's not um doesn't come easy. Or people are like, How do you do all those crazy leads and sing at the same time? I'm like, I don't. The solo comes in after I after the riff. But to be honest, I could probably do like sweet picking, no problem, something that would be really like impressive. But if it's all 16th notes, that's fine. If it's just one note and I'm going and doing a rhythm that doesn't go with the vocals, that's way harder. It doesn't look as impressive, but if I'm just going just over and over, that's not an issue, it's the rhythms that mess me up.
SPEAKER_01You can do that stuff, right? I have a hard time playing opposing uh rhythms and singing a separate line. Absolutely. It used to be melodic too. I'd be like, I I'd start to sing the notes I was playing, and be like, that doesn't, that ain't it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. I also I also look at people like Sting or like bass players that sing, where like the bass lines are like reggae type of lines, and then sing it. I was like, that looks way more tricky than what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_02You know what always blew me away? I saw them in '95 at a teeny tiny club about the size of this room um in Seattle in the mid-90s. Uh there was a band called Space Hog. Do you remember them?
SPEAKER_00No, the night. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um in the meantime. Boom, boom, but da da da da da da da da. You've heard the spin.
SPEAKER_01They're they're all English guys, but they met in New York. They're all from Leeds. In the meantime, but they didn't know each other there. It's like, ooh.
SPEAKER_02If it plays me. We'll play it for you after this. But anyway, the whole song for him. He sings and plays that fucking bass line on both ends of the neck.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's pretty crazy.
SPEAKER_02Flawlessly. That's really good. That's not fair. Like that sucks.
SPEAKER_01It's not heady lee, but it's something. It's pretty fucking close, dude. Yeah. It's pretty damn close.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So good. Josh, I don't want to keep you too long. Um, thank you so much for hanging out. Go. We're gonna link down below. Go go buy all of this man's stuff. It's so damn good. It's so good, dude.
SPEAKER_01But do you tour amps or are you touring a model?
SPEAKER_00Quad Cortex, yeah. With Did you see the way he said that though? Yeah, but with impulse responses. No, I mean, not ashamed. I mean it's just so easy. I mean, Quad Cortex is incredible. I use like pre-mixed impulse responses. Because I we've got a great front of house with us, but I just want to know I've got full control of my tone. Because like the amount of times back in the day with real amps, especially summer festivals in Europe where you're just playing a new festival every day, and then you've got your front of houses saying up their desk and you've got stage hands just throwing mics up, and it's like, well, mic placement's everything, like getting that right for your guitar sound. So with a Quad Cortex or the Kemper, especially if I've got a pre-EQ'd impulse response, I know it's like album mix and they just turn it up and it's like flawless.
SPEAKER_01Um assuming the hat the system is. Yeah, exactly. I mean, exactly, yeah.
SPEAKER_00As long as the PA is tuned well. I mean, I'm I'm not saying that they never put EQ on my guitars, I'm sure they do. Yeah. Um but that that's just something that I'm really wanna take pride in, obviously guitar tones. Um and I just want it to be like super clear and heavy live. I just want all the control.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Do you ever feel pressure about being you know guitar guy? Like, man, this has to be fuck this has to sound fucking killer. Like, I always want everybody that comes out to a show to walk away going, fucking guitar don't slap. Like I want them to think.
SPEAKER_00100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02I wish I could not care, but I don't give a shit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I know, I know. There's like I know a lot of bands that are way bigger and more successful that whatever. But no, I I really care about that, yeah. Just because I I care. Of course you do. If I go to a show and the guitar sounds bad, then I'm like, oh.
SPEAKER_02It's distracting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Right? Some of us, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, to some yeah, yeah. My lady's just like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Like, listen to that 7k spike in there. What the fuck is that?
SPEAKER_01What do you have after the US run here? How much longer are you out?
SPEAKER_00We've got mm another two and a bit of weeks, maybe, and then some summer festivals. UK festivals, Europe festivals, European Hellfest is the most exciting one in France. It's insane. Yeah, the lineup's always ridiculous. It looks like a joke. Just every band that you like that they're there. Yep. Um, or at least for me. Um, and then we've got another tour and end of the year that's not announced yet, which will be good. Um, right, um, we've got one with Whitechapel, we're doing UK and Europe, the start of 27. So it's shout out to the boys. Co-headline in the UK, but then we're direct support to them in Europe. Cool. Um which is great, yeah. And their new record's incredible as well. So uh yes, it is. Yeah, and rectifier. Is it? Oh, cool. Yeah, I mean, we've kind of I've kind of known some of those guys since like 2007. They I went and played some shows with them with Solosis and my friend's band Viach Free at the time. It's kind of kept in touch, and they're lovely guys. Sofully dudes. That's cool. Great music, great guys is always a good combo when you're on tour.
SPEAKER_02They're really having a moment as well. Yeah, resurgence almost, I guess. Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I'm I'm really stoked for that. But writing, we've been writing on this tour as well. I just want to get ahead of ourselves again.
SPEAKER_02More music's coming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, the the most annoying thing was the last record we had a deadline, which I think helped elevate the record. I think um this we had like 15 songs, they're all finished, but there were like middle eight sections where we're like, oh, this could be better. And then the last two weeks ripped loads of the songs apart, and they were way, way better than they were before because of that pressure of being like, This record has to be incredible. But I don't like the idea of that pressure. If what if what if next time around we have the same thing, but we don't get that spark or whatever, it doesn't happen. So I I'm always like trying to get ahead. And especially if we're working with booking agents saying, Well, we're gonna do a UK headline tour here. If you can get the record out by here, hand it into the label six months before that to promote it and stuff.
SPEAKER_02Just write a record real quick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I I'm I'm already pretty deep into the next one, even though the last one's only been out about three months.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Good lord, dude. Yeah, save save some riffs for the rest of us, pal.
SPEAKER_00Well, again, like Ben uh bass player's running a lot as well on tour, so he's gonna be bringing some in, he's got some cool stuff coming. One of the the singles we put out was one that he wrote the majority of, and I think it was like a different uh different vibe that that helps freshen things up with someone else cooking up.
SPEAKER_02Sure, sure, relieves a little bit of pressure, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And that, yeah. I I mean I I really like doing what you know down from architects would do the stuff that I wrote in architects, where I'm like, you give me all the riffs, then I'm gonna like chop them up and or like make that's gonna be the chorus now, that's a good middle eight riff or whatever, and get my hands on it because it's it's quite creative in a different way, you know.
SPEAKER_01On the songs that you're not the primary writer, do you find it to be harder to play and sing at the same time?
SPEAKER_00Because stylistically it's not there's not many songs like that yet, but it just so happens that that main song that Ben wrote is really fast and really tricky to play, right? But he's playing bass like this and the guitars are going like downpicking. And we're like, dude, like he's like, Yeah, we can we play this song. It's called Spared from the Guillotine, it's like a really fast, thrashy one with like blast beats and stuff, and like tons of downpicking. And he's like, Can we add it into the set? I really want to play this song. I'm like, Yeah, me too, but you're like just doing this on bass. I've got to go do do do do do it and sing. It's it's difficult, right? I'll get there. We keep uh sound checking it, so it'll be in the set. Damn. But yeah, it's true, it's tough. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02No way. I couldn't I could never do that. That's why I just scream in my band. Every once in a while. I just have to go.
SPEAKER_01What about on stage though? No, try not to.
SPEAKER_02Anyway, Josh, thank you so much for hanging out. And uh good luck for those of you tour. And um yeah. Link down below, guys. Go go click on all of the things, go support Josh, go support Silosis. And uh if you're if you're uh gonna go see a show, go see the Bleed From Within and Silosis tour.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, when's this gonna come out then?
SPEAKER_01Oh, 2027.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, I hope you enjoyed that show.
SPEAKER_02It'll come out in two weeks.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02That's all right. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, if it's still going. Yeah, you might. But if you're in Europe, go see them. That's right. All right, everybody.
