Episode 2 - Fit For An Autopsy

On this episode of the Riffs, Beards & Gear podcast Fluff and Mike sit down with Pat Sheridan and Tim Howley from Fit For An Autopsy to chat guitars, touring, tattoos, digital modelers vs real amps and more!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I just I don't care. I I'm very much over the importance of tattooing and more onto the idea of just looking like a piece of shit. You know what I mean? Like I love that.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

That's kind of always been my I also don't think that hand tattoos should look good.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

No, your hands should look like shit. And I tell that to people all the time. If you're gonna get your hands tattooed you have to join the club that I'm in and they should suck. We should talk about guitars.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

Are you guys ready? Yeah, born ready. We're going. We're live. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, welcome to another episode of the Wrist Beards and Gear Podcast. Uh I am here with my co-host Mike Squires with special guests, Pat and Tim from Fit for an Autopsy. Boys, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Uh they are currently on tour with Lamagod. Uh I think that band is gonna go places.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

I think younger band there, but young group of guys, go-getters. Really into it. They're killing.

SPEAKER_02 1:01

They got some riffs, dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

Big riffs, big riff pads, riffs. But he's all right. They're very good, good, talented kids. They're gonna go far.

SPEAKER_00 1:14

I wish I could have talked to them before they started the tour so I could just lay it out for them. Yeah. Touring is hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

I don't know if you guys get the joke yet, but yeah, we're out with fucking Lamagod. You guys are only a weekend of the tour? Yeah, maybe like eight days or something.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Uh yeah, I think I think this is show like eight or nine, but we've been on tour for about two weeks.

SPEAKER_04 1:34

Yeah, and you guys have toured multiple times with Lamagod. This is our second time.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

And well, technically we played the boat too. Yeah, we did probably. And then we're doing um a one-off in Puerto Rico with them in May. Yes. Cool. They love you. We love them. Yeah. Listen, I'll say this wholeheartedly. We've toured a lot of bands. We love a lot of bands. We've been out with great bands, lots of bands that treated us good. I don't want to make anybody feel slighted, but Lamb of God, there's just something about they get the music we do, they understand what we're doing, and they watch us play. Like at least, you know, a couple times a week you look over, you see them peeking in and watching what we're doing. And we just ran into Mark, nothing but nice things to say. It's been fantastic. Yeah, really good too.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Their crew is absolutely fantastic. Like, you know, the camp, you know, we we get along really well with the camp. So, you know, that's definitely you know part of the glue of us, you know, touring together in the world.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

And are you guys all from Georgia?

SPEAKER_03 2:28

No, no, no, no, no. We're just we're an East Coast.

SPEAKER_02 2:31

I'll give him the quick one rundown. So Fit was born in New Jersey in 2007. Yep. Will and I, and another dude from another band, it was supposed to just be like a little side project thing. Kind of fell apart quickly, and then um a guy named Nate Johnson came along and he was like, Oh, I love the singing for your brand. He's got this crazy deep voice, he's fucking hilarious. And um, that worked for a while, but then he left. So, as with any band, you have to start finding people in the pool because not everybody really is built for this world. So we found Hosean who came in and as our second drummer, and then we had uh Tim come in because Will decided to stay behind and work on his engineering career and just love to talk about that in a second. Um and then um and then we brought in Blue on bass, and um since then, I mean it's been what blue's like almost 10 years in now or something like that. Yeah, blue joined late 2016. So he's almost at 10 years. Almost at 10 years. So now we have this solid lineup, but we're scattered. Blue's in the Boston area, New Hampshire, he's always up in that you know, northeast. Will studio's in Jersey, he and Joe. Oh yeah, we brought Joe in 2010.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

Uh 2015. 2015.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah. So Joe also, you know. So like there's just been all these moving parts, and you know, you're scattered. So now I'm in Georgia, just outside Atlanta. Tim and Joe are both living in North Carolina now. Um, blue is still up in you know the New England area. Will is in Jersey. Uh Josean lives in San Juan, Puerto Rico. And he was born and raised there, moved back to Jersey or moved to Jersey for a little while, and then went back to San Jose. So we're scattered. San Juan. Or San Juan, yeah. So we're a modern band. Yeah, it's very modern. And we have the trick is is you know, we have all slacked at one point or another, especially me. But um now we're kind of really well oiled. And when it's time, you know, we FaceTime and work on the rifts, and okay, what are we doing here? Are we gonna change this live? What are we doing? And then by the time we get to practice, we practice for two days and we just go out on tour.

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Isn't technology sick that way? Because back forever it was if you weren't all in the same metro area, if you're age, you couldn't exist.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Our band functions a lot differently than other bands, like you know, especially with Will being such an integral member of the band, with them starting the band and Will wanting to stay behind and focus on the engineering career around 2012, 2013 with me coming in. You know, this allows us to go out and tour, and we'll we'll be at home writing. So, like for the first 10 years that I was in the band, we would be touring, touring, touring. We would get home and we would be allowed to have maybe like a three-week break. We would go record a record and then go back right out on tour.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah, you know, so the process is very it's yeah, it's speedy, it's quick.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

Well, I was gonna say you can you can creatively have your cake and eat it too, because you don't have to have that. Now we have to go home and write. Yeah, you don't do the growth that's doing the work.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

Yeah, well, and it's crazy. And the big problem is is like this is the argument I have about Will. A lot of people will say, Oh, well, he doesn't tour with your band. It's like, well, there's always one guy, right? And when Will was getting ready to sit back, he realized that number one, he would have to do 150 days a year with us, which there's no way to do anything else. No, right? You just can't do it if you don't have a business partner or something like that owning another business outside of touring, it's impossible. So he was like, Look, I don't want to do this, and I was like, Look, I don't I don't want to do it without you. Like, how do I keep my best friend in the band with me? And then we found this guy, and I was like, Tim's sick, let's bring him on as a touring guy, but then it it just became obvious that he's just a great guitar player, he's got good ideas, he's good at touring. So, like, it's like this makes sense for him to be a permanent member, sure, and and it doesn't make sense to not have him, so it kind of all just balanced itself. The hard part is letting go of the ego, of course, right? Because you everybody wants to write the riffs, everybody wants to be the Kirk Winstein, right? You know what I mean? Like you just fucking want to do it. But sometimes you have to know your place. My place is touring, my place is keeping the band on the road, Tim's place doing what he does. We used to joke around and say Tim's job was what's your job?

SPEAKER_03 6:47

My job is to play guitar and shut the fuck up. And I'm only good at one of those things, and it's not shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

So, but the thing is, is that's also kind of my job, yeah, you know. But I run a lot of the business for the tour. Will runs a lot of the background stuff. It's really interesting the way that it worked out, and it's very much an anomaly. And people will say, Oh, well, he doesn't tour, like we said that already. And it's like, yeah, but I know a lot of guys that are in Will's world that get paid to write your favorite band songs, and we're not gonna get into it too much. But that dude's in my band. Yeah, we talk about, I was just on the phone with him talking business about merch, just making sure everything works. Like, Will has a hand in everything, he just can't tour the way we tour, and he chooses not to, and he's happy. He said to me, He's like, I just love writing music. How do we do this? And that's how it was born.

SPEAKER_03 7:36

And also, you know, talking about the ego thing and getting over the ego thing, right? So there's so many guitarists and so many musicians in this world that want to be the best. They're they want to be the guy, and they, you know, even to the detriment of their own character, they fake stuff on the internet and make sure that they're the guy. Yeah, and it's like I, as a guitarist, a long time ago, realized I was like, I'm never going to be Paul Gilbert or Steve Vai or the best guitarists in the world, but I'm also not the worst guitarist in the world.

SPEAKER_04 8:10

Well, I've always equated it. Yeah, I'm the premier late. I've always equated it. Here's how it makes sense to me music is a lot like food. Yeah, there's a time and a place for just about everything, right? You have guys like Steve Vai who are a Thanksgiving dinner. If you want some white meat, you want some cranberry sauce, he has all that. Yep. But that does not mean a Snickers bar doesn't fucking hit. I want to be the best Snickers bar I can be. And I know I'm a Snickers bar, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

But here's the thing, too, right? Like, I'll tell you what I can do. I can put on a great show. Yeah, I can put on a show. I can run around stage and act like a fucking moron, throw my guitar around, interact with people on the stage, play these riffs in a way where I can deliver them to a crowd and make people feel entertained. And there's a big thing that's missing in our industry right now, and it's the entertainment side of it. We are all so unfortunately, some bands out there decided to backing track to the point where they made it sound so much like the CD that the listeners' expectations have been raised to this bar that is almost unachievable if you're not doing certain things, right? So we have to play to a click, we have to have some backing tracks for like third-party type stuff where ambience and third and fourth guitar layer stuff, and you know, things we can't do live without Will being there because it is three parts of guitar on our records because there's three of us, right? So there's all these things that happen that we have to kind of dip into, but we're also not tracking our solos. We're playing live. So we can provide this thing, still give people that CD quality. I mean, I hate saying that because nobody sounds like the disc live unless you're playing it in the background. But it's just unrealistic. As close as we can get with a live.

SPEAKER_04 9:59

Yeah, but it's having the unfortunate uh nature or unfortunate luck of uh having to go on before you guys. Well, that's our job.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Our job is to make everybody playing around and uncomfortable. Damn it.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

A little bit of healthy competition between bands is amazing, especially. Good for a tour. Live music.

SPEAKER_02 10:20

I mean, brother, Sang with Suga Bog goes on before us every night, and those dudes sound like a fucking freight train. Yeah, it's this tone that like they just do a thing that is very unexpected from that band in a live setting. Because I figure, okay, it's a death metal band. It's either gonna sound great or terrible live. And live, it's just like getting punched in the fucking mouth. So we gotta work every day. I love that. I love being challenged. Okay, these guys were great, we got to be better. But that's the thing that I can provide as a guitar person.

SPEAKER_03 10:47

That's that healthy competition. It's awesome. It's good, it's good for us as musicians as well. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

You said something earlier that stuck with me, and that was good at touring. Yes. We've all ha been in bands with people who are bad at touring. Oh, yeah. Early in my touring career, I learned a term chicken or beef. You know chicken or beef? That's what they're gonna ask you when you get sent home from a tour on your flight home. Chicken or beef. That's funny. Because you're out of here. That's funny.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

Uh you want a window seat or an aisle seat. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

What what does it take to be good at touring? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Okay. I can simplify this in a way where I think everybody will agree that's been on a tour. Um, you have to be able to deal with personalities, um, and you have five or six creatives in one vehicle living together. I'm a very emotional dude. Um, I take a lot of things personally. Tim is a very dry dude. Joe is a quintessential singer. He wants his space, he wants to do what he does. Joe's is kind of a little spatially unaware. But I think a lot of people can be that way. Um, blue is very um, I guess, like uh OCD driven. Everything's gotta be in his place, place for everything, and Hosean doesn't give a fuck about anything but his drums, right? So that's what our band is. All the archetypes. Right, every every different version of a musician in our band. But the difference is that we all have one goal. And when it comes down to the goal, none of the personal shit matters. So if you want to be good at touring, you have to be able to do three things listen, shut the fuck up, speak things that are naturally true and honest, because even if you're wrong, you have to learn how to say the things that you truly mean. And I tend to overreact, I need to know when I'm overreacting. Tim tends to underreact. He needs to know when he's underreacting. These are the things that you get educated on.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

To be able to bend and mold personality-wise is very important. Yep. You know, and obviously that's when you have, like Pat said, when you have five, six, seven, eight people in either a van or a bandwagon or a bus or so on and so forth, like you're bringing more people into the fold. Finding, you know, your ways to bend and mold around their personalities and their personality traits is 100% hard, but that's only one part of being good at touring. Yeah. You know, when when Pat first wanted me to join the band, you know, originally I said no. I was like, nah, I'm like, I'm done touring. I did DIY touring for like six, seven years before that. And I was just like, We won't tour that much. No, no, I told them we were gonna do a lot of things. I was like, I'm good. But then I sent them the record. When it comes to yeah, hellbound, that that solidified it for me. But when it comes to logistics, when it comes to you know, knowing what is going to be the best for your band business-wise, like me and Pat used to buttheads early on a lot. Once we realized that we were trying to achieve the same goal, we were just taking different paths to get there.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Ego checks.

SPEAKER_03 14:02

We both realized we're like, okay, let's bend and mold to make it one road to get to that place that we want to get to. Because we both both wanted the band to be successful, we both wanted the band to get to that final place, but I wanted to do it this way, and I was boneheaded about it. He wanted to do this, do it this way, he was boneheaded about it. Once we kind of came to terms with that, it was so much smoother. And you know, we're at where we're at now because of that.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

Well, also because like I think a really big part of this is like Tim was in a band and he did a lot of touring. Tim was kind of young. So coming into it, he would say things like, Well, we never did this with this band, and I would like kind of be a dick about it, and be like, Well, how'd that work out? And then he would be like, Okay, and I'll be like, These are the things that people who are above me are telling me. Right. Now, I'm not saying that I'm above Tim, but I handle things that Tim doesn't ever have to handle because I believe that that's part of being an owner and somebody who's pushing the business and doing all these things, is you have to put yourself in a position where you're taking on more responsibility than the people around you so they can do their job and you can get things to be successful. Right. And there always has to be a spearhead, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 15:16

But it was also a give and take because my old band had more touring experience than Fit had at that point. Sure. So because I had done more, I'm like, that's not how you do this. I get that. Yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 15:30

But then there's the whole thing of like, sure, that's not how you do it, but a lot of bands were doing it that way, and it didn't work.

SPEAKER_05 15:36

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

So then I have Will saying, Hey, don't fucking do that, Pat. Like, do this. And then I would go to Tim, and Tim would be like, say something that I was thinking originally, but then Will kind of kicked in the dirt. And I have to believe Will because Will is very business savvy and he's great in the industry and he works with all these bands, and so he's all these. So many bands in that period.

SPEAKER_04 15:56

I mean, now of course, but I mean, this is a we're talking about an era of like he's working on, you know, he's working with Machine and working on suicide silence records and like doing he worked on the he was in the studio during we saw the Sacrament record happening because Machine worked on that record.

SPEAKER_02 16:10

So, like, that's the thing. Like, you gotta know when to take advice from people. And what's the rule? The rule is you put yourself around people that are in positions that you want to be in, and you don't take advice from people that are in positions that you don't want to be in. Of course. And that's a hard pill to swallow sometimes because you want to believe that people have the best intentions for you, but sometimes they don't. Of course. You know, and this industry is really dry, and people will take things from you, people will gatekeep you. You know, like we've been a band for almost 20 years, and people are like, Oh, I got your first record, and I'm like, Oh, which one? They're like the great collapse. I'm like my brother in Christ. There's like four or three or four records before that, you know. So it's like it it's fine, but you can't lie to yourself about what gets you where you need to go. It's cool.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Nobody gets into playing music because they're business-minded. Am I right? Yeah, you get in so many people are blocking the shit. Fucking slayer! Yeah, or whatever, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

That guy was at the show the other night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

When you when you realized that there was so much business involved in this pursuit that you had, were you disappointed or were you excited?

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Okay, I think maybe a little bit of both. Because here's the thing.

SPEAKER_04 17:20

Yeah, same.

SPEAKER_02 17:22

I love touring, I love playing music. If my band broke up, I would just start at Alice and Chains cover band and play the local bar. I just don't, I don't, I have to.

SPEAKER_04 17:30

I'd fly over once a month and we would play the show. Yeah, I would have to be. Yeah, we're gonna do that. Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 17:34

Yeah, we but the thing is this, like I just have to play music. Like, I've been doing it for so long. And yeah, I'm not the greatest, but it's just there's just a thing a thing about it. Something that happens when I pick up a guitar, I go to a different place, and I don't have to think about anything. The thing that's disappointing about it is the way that okay, this is a great example. There was a guy that used to do festivals and it was like a touring fest. I'm not gonna say names, but um he said something to me once about how I had to learn my place and that my band would never get to a certain level, and I had to take things that were given to me. And I turned around and I said, you know what? Kindly uh forcibly stick your project inside of your body, and uh I'll never fucking work with you. And because it just I'm just not gonna get told that. And you know, your band's never gonna get anywhere. And now those people are calling and asking us to do things, and I'm like, nah, I'm good. Right? So there's there's this thing.

SPEAKER_03 18:34

But that's that that's that thing that's sounds like you're motivated by challenge.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

I'm motivated by despite when people tell me I can't do something, I'm gonna do it four fucking times. He's seen me do it. Oh man, I go to NAM and people are like, You can't do that. I'm like, fucking watch. Right. And I do it. And the thing is this like I've made some great friends that are unbelievable at guitar, and I watch them play, and I'm like, man, there's no reason for me to touch this instrument. And then I get on stage and I watch how people react, and the fucking pit opens up and people going crazy, and I'm like, there's a purpose for me here. Yeah, do I want to make money doing this? Yeah, because if I don't make money, how the fuck can I take this guy away from his family for a fucking year if we're not gonna make money? Like everybody says, Oh, you're only in it for the money. Fuck you. Living indoors is great because I have living indoors is great. Yeah, living indoors is sick. You ever live in a car? It sucks. You know what I mean? And like priorities change, man. Yeah, and I got a kid, I got a wife, and my wife has suffered through me being in a touring band since my son was five months old.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

The most patient woman on the planet, she's fucking incredible. She's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

Yeah, my wife is honestly, if it wasn't for her, fit wouldn't be where it's at right now, or there would be somebody else doing what I do because you know, she was five months pregnant, and we got signed to our first label, and I was getting ready to go to rehearsal to quit and be like, Look, guys, I I can't leave my pregnant wife or my newborn child. And she was like, I don't want you to quit, you're gonna resent us. She's like, You've worked so long at this. She's like, just fucking do it, we'll figure it out. And she may regret that, but I'll tell you, like, you know, we are very lucky. We have um a band with members who have women either very supportive or partners that are very supportive, people that are very supportive, and you know, uh, it doesn't go lightly, but if I can't pay the bills and help my wife do what she needs to do, there's no fucking way I can do this job. That's right. I'll stay home and tattoo, you know. And like everybody has this jaded look at what oh, these musicians, they just want money. It's like, no, dude, if I'm gonna sacrifice my my relationship with my son, be on the road six months a year and be a fucking dad on FaceTime, you're gonna pay me for that.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

It's still a job.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

I have to make money, yeah. You know, I I can't sacrifice that. There's gotta be a benefit for me and Tim and the boys, but also our partners and our people and our families has to pan out. Otherwise, I can't do it.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

How how much easier does modern amenities like FaceTime make it compared to before FaceTime? I mean, it's obvious. Obviously, there was always phone calls, but for me, my daughter, FaceTime was such a game changer. Yeah, it was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 21:11

I mean, just in your relationship, yeah, just in your with your partner, you know, like if you you just being able to see each other's face, it does something. Like when I call my wife or my son and I get to see their emotions and talk to them about those things, like if they're having a hard day, you can tell when people are kind of fake in the mood and you can kind of get deeper in. It's like a text message. Somebody can tell you text message, you can misconstrue it like that. But when you can see the expression, there's a smile, or if there's a frown, you know the difference. Technology is incredible. Sometimes it's tough, but the quad cortex and FaceTime have changed my life.

SPEAKER_03 21:47

It's even it's even double for me because I go on tour, and then when I'm home from tour, my wife still lives in Scotland, right? So I didn't know that. Yeah, we're going through the whole visa process, it's been a nightmare. I have uh life. Exactly. So um you know, for the last year and a half that we've been married, and you know, the the two years before that that we were dating, it's like even though I'm home, it's like it's still FaceTiming, it's still calling, it's still you know, and there's a lot of flight out of the street.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

He stays in Europe when we come home.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Yeah, when we do Europe tours, like either I'll go before or after and I'll just stay in Scotland for like two, three weeks, which is one of my favorite. Oh, but his and his lady's super great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

You know, I can t I can honestly say that all of the partners that are around Fit for an autopsy are are good people. Yeah, yeah, you know, you have to have that. Yeah, and it it's it's weird. It's weird because like there's no weird outside influence on the band. You know, we've had a couple of issues here and there, but nothing like depressing, you know, things that were solvable. Of course, yeah. And uh, you know, no yoko. We won't do that. And uh I will fucking I I can ruin this band on my own. I don't need any help. That's right. You know what I mean? That's right.

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Uh technology when it comes to all that stuff, it it helps immensely. Yes, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

It's it's and not having to take cabs on tour is cool too.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

Amen of that. Can we talk about guitar stuff? Yeah, let's do that. Let's fuck them go. Okay, so famously, so all the time I've known you for I think going on almost 10 years now.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Yeah, we've done Joe's a long time. We're actual friends.

SPEAKER_04 23:22

We are actual friends. Actual friends, yes. And you for so long, and rightfully so, were pro-amp when it came to touring. You guys took amps, you did the hard work, you had the back line, but also you were always the best sounding band.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

I'm gonna make everybody mad at me whenever. Ever. So goaded.

SPEAKER_04 23:43

Thank you. Your live tone is absolutely goaded.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

That means so much more to me than people telling me I'm good at guitar, you have no fucking clue.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

God, your tone live, both of you, is so it's so cohesive and clear, and there's a lot of game, but there's the stringiness of the individual notes, and that was that came from real tube amps for the longest time, and now you're on you're on pod cortexes. Let me roll first on this one. Oh, here we go. What were those amps you were using?

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Okay, wait. Well, let's start with the amps. Can we start with the amps? Let's always do for it.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

When fit first started, we were dual rex, right? Yeah. I was a two-channel dual rex. And so was I.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

RevG.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yep. And then um we were working with Mesa for a little while. Um, we loved working with them at the time. Tim was the guy, and we had a really good relationship with them. And unfortunately, let's just say that things changed. Of course, yeah. Tim left, and you know, well, Tim left, and then some real weird stuff happened, and not to get into any kind of finger pointing or whatever, could have been us, could have been them. I'm gonna lean more towards them, but it's fine. Um so then um everybody knows that I was with Ibanez for a while, and then I moved to Mayone's for a little while, and that was fantastic. Both companies are great. I love everybody there, it's just business decisions. And also I found my love for Jackson's my first guitar was a Model 2 Charbell, and I just love those guitars. So moving to Jackson was great. But when we moved to Jackson, EVH, it was just a natural thing because they, you know, my AR guy, Mike Tempesta, fantastic.

SPEAKER_04 25:20

Shout out to Mike, great.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Um, he was like, hey, this is a thing over here if you're interested. So we were for a while. And and we so we went from dual rec's to PV5150s, which we have a plethora of the 5150s signature, the two. Everybody, the fucking 5152, everybody screams about the block letter. You haven't played a 5152.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

If you have a that is the one, I was a dual rec the entire time until we went to the EVH 5150s.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

He was, he was, yeah. But I love the 5152, and Will uh has a great one. So I mean sound. It's yeah, it's sick. So I was using that, and then we switched to the EVH 5150, which is also fucking fantastic, dude. The EL34 one's cool, the 6L6 one is cool, they're all really, really cool. So we did that, and then that brought us to where we're at right now. Yeah. So I'll let you say what you want to say, and then I'll jump in.

SPEAKER_03 26:19

So we've we've we've had a lot of friends of ours that have been trying to push us to go digital for a long time.

SPEAKER_04 26:26

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 26:26

And you know, a lot of people were there they were explaining how it's a business move. It's not necessarily like a culture move or this. It's like it's a means to an end, right?

SPEAKER_04 26:37

And so what he means by that, if I may, yeah. Because you're talking about you have to move gear. Like if you're gonna be a traveling band, you're paying potential freighting costs if you want that same setup and we're talking about real. Things in Europe setups, all that's right. Oh, that's what I was I was gonna get into that. The ability to plug and play diminishes if you're using real mail.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Let alone that casing things and rolling it in and out of that's all of the fragility of footprint is hardware.

SPEAKER_03 27:01

So in in basically in April of 2023, we went out, we did uh small little festival run. We did Empiricon Fest in Europe. Uh we were on it together. That was yeah. So when we played that one in Leipzig, I remember watching you guys and then we played. Yep, and we had on that 60-foot wide stage, it was a massive festival stage, by the way. Yes, our setup looked like this. Our setup was a drum riser, uh like a uh, you know, one meter drum or a half meter drum riser, right? Foot and a half tall. And then we had two full, two, sorry, we had two half stacks on either side and a base cab on stage right, right? On a 60-foot stage, it kind of looked chintzy. You know, it looks, you know, kind of whatever.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

Definitely needed two bass rigs.

SPEAKER_04 27:49

So if I may interject, okay, I had hate in my heart for your band. Yeah, because the uh there, you guys were like, we just got Reynolds, this is an RNA's like we don't, they're just regular 51-53s, right? The literal greatest guitar tone I've ever heard from an in-live band. Wow. I was like, son of a bitch. Well, here's the here's the thing.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

I hate these guys. Uh I'm gonna take it back a step further.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Yeah, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Right? Okay, so we were the first band, according to a lot of people, I don't know how accurate this is, but right after COVID, as soon as it was available, we did two full tours and did not miss a date.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Right through. I may or may not have gotten sick. We had this new medication called Shut the Fuck Up and Go to Bed. That's right. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

So um we or tour accounting doesn't work out. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

And you know, I can't pay the bills if I'm not playing the music, you know what I mean? So we did two tours, missed no dates. That European tour was the fucking worst thing because we got post-COVID amps. No work done to them. Yeah, they look like they just came from a bunch of festivals covered in dust and dirt. We got four or five different 515s. Fucking 5150s went down in six days. On that run? No, no, no, no. No, is this before this was before prior? So I was already primed to give up on amps at that point because I'm just so tired of depending on people to do the right thing. Now, no disrespect to the companies that we were working with. Everybody in COVID went through a bunch of financial shit. Yep, it sucked. They probably just didn't have the means to get everything done the right way, but we fell victim to it. Yeah, so then we came back and we did a tour with Whitechapel in Europe, and this is the last time we used amps. Well, yeah. Gabe Gabe said to me, Yeah, I go, he uh he was using a quad, and he was like, Yeah, bro, I don't have to carry that fucking 810 base cab. And I just looked at him and I was like, What am I doing?

SPEAKER_03 29:37

Well, that was that we were already on quads at that point. Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

So But Blue was we were bringing cabs.

SPEAKER_03 29:43

Well, yeah, we were we had so basically we had we did have cabs on that tour, we ran cabs on that tour. Yep. But on that run in early 23, on that festival run, we played that setup. I was like, cool, and I had videos of our stage setup. I was like, oh man, like this looked awesome, da-da-da-da. And then the art came up, and the art was fully Kemper, and all they had on stage was four lighting carts and a two and a half meter drum riser. And it just filled it just filled the stage. Yeah, it just looked cooler. The thing was, you know, it was at that point that I realized that the cabs would potentially hold us back from doing certain stage setups or something like that. So cooking cool is important. No, it fucking is. It is.

SPEAKER_02 30:37

You know, it's if you're gonna wear the outfit, you gotta sell the cookies. You know what I'm saying? Like you gotta you gotta be able to do the thing. At the end of the day, it's still a seller.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

And if you want to sell the cookies, you gotta wear the outfit.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Fucking 100%. Nobody's gonna believe you're selling the cookies if you're not wearing the fucking khakis.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

You know what I'm saying? At the end of the day, it's still a show. And you want to give fans your friends a show.

SPEAKER_02 30:55

Let me say this too. Something about Fit for an Autopsy. We know our place. Of course. We know we're not the biggest band in the world. We know we're one of them middle of the mid-level metal bands at this point, and we're blessed to be there. At 50 years old, to be in a growing band is fucking crazy. But I'm gonna say this. Because we know where we are, we understand that there's certain things that we have to do in order to be and look the part of the big guys. Correct. I can't afford an 18-wheeler, I can't have a trailer following my, you know, we gotta van and a trailer or a wagon and a trailer or a bus and a trailer. I can't afford a truck because it costs too much money. So, sure, if I could afford a truck, put all the amps and cabs in there that you want because that means I can afford a crew and I don't gotta fucking carry them. Yeah, but the point is we know our place, so we are finding um ways to keep up with the Joneses without having to pay the Joneses money. Yeah, like that's the thing. If you're in a band and you you're in a small band, let's say you're in a local band, but you want to look cool, find ways to do what the big bands do on a budget that is actually functional.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

We're right, so you know what I mean? Right. Fit is also our own crew.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

Fit's also our own crew. Yeah. Like, you know, we have a sound guy.

SPEAKER_04 32:10

Before we were here, Pat was putting together the merch and wheeling the merch out to out of the room.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

And here's the thing: like, we I could afford to hire a merch person, yeah, but like I said, I have to make sure that I can feed these guys. Yeah, there was a point in Fit for an Autopsy where we were going on tour, and I was paying everybody else in the band except for myself. I remember. I would come home from tour, we would have conversations about that, break up all the money for everybody, and then I would go work seven days a week until I got my bank account full and I would go back on touring. I did that for like four years. And the reason I did that is because I knew that this was a good crew that I wanted to keep together. I knew that we could do something together. It just felt right, right? I didn't do it for any other reason, and I don't hold it over their heads, but I do tell the story because I think people need to know. Sure, you want to be the boss? Well, that's what the fuck the boss does. The boss understands where the things need to be cut, and you cut from yourself first and make sure everybody else is taken care of. And then when things get better, you find the benefits in it. So, like, I there are little things that I'll do for myself now. You know, Will will do little things for himself, but these guys have always been taken care of. If you're not willing to make the sacrifice, your fucking band won't make it these days because there's too many things happening on TikTok, too many things happening with music that make it harder for you to do what we do. Finding a you cut the costs that are functionally efficient and you do things that make it worth it. So that means I don't get to bring my amps, which sometimes I miss them. I'm feeling that fucking thump in my back. I'm horse. Sure. But my quads sound incredible out front. And you want to know what else, dude? I'll tell you what else. There's a thing we did on purpose to prove that the quad is a functional thing. All of my shit in my quad is stuck. Nothing is none of my captures.

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Everything is the 5150 capture. I run the Soldano plugin, but still neural. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

Um, and I use the Bogner cab. Great, utility gate, the Maxon 808, the green overdrive. I use the delays and the reverbs on that thing are fucking cool. Yeah. Every single bit of my tone. And Woody, our sound guy, helped us dial in just the tail end of it where we put a parametric EQ right before the loop. Right. And we we evened everything out the way we used to do back in the day with the fucking that's the trick. Okay, we're here. Yeah. This that's the trick. You want to you guys want to know what to do? Why our tone was always so good? There's two tricks. There's a hidden master volume on that thing that nobody knows how to do.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

That was was was on me for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Yes. And so there's uh a loop volume that if you're using it correctly, you can use it as a master volume. Look it up on the internet. Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

Well, okay. So this this is how go ahead. Okay, so back in the day, so I got I got my first I got my first uh dual rec in 2010. It's that RevG that I still have, right? Oh, we're talking about the quad Cortex? No, we're talking about the Mesa Boogie dual multiplicate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you run the phone. What? Wait, what? You run the loop on all the time. And you can so your your channel volume doesn't necessarily affect it. Your loop volume acts as your master clockwork.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

So you have a little secret weapon in the back that people don't know about that you can get more headroom out of. Sure, right? And then you put a parametric, like a 10-band that boss did that EQ. MXR 10 band in there, and I used to go whoop and fucking.

SPEAKER_04 35:28

I still think about that setup you had. You had a JP2C, this particular setup.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

This is a crazy setup.

SPEAKER_04 35:33

JP2C. Then you had the uh multi-watt rectifier with the MXR in the loop, but then you had the Maxon going before both of them, and then you had a splitter and a splitter going into the other. Yep. Right. And and also And you had a fucking rectifier.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Yeah. My secret weapon on that Alita was the DBX266XX. That's open into my loop. So the DBX266 XL, I would have the first channel running through the front. It would be pedal board, then first channel run it through the front. And then I would also have the second channel from the DBX through the back of the. Oh, that's stupid. Bump the output gain because at that point it's like, yeah, you can you can bump up your your 805 or your Maxon or whatever you you have. It was intense. Think about that tone also. When I tell you that, like it used to make the next one have dunk dunk dunk. I've never had anyone have that tone, period in my life. Smash, dude.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

And Will used to be like, this you ran into that I came in the studio with this and saw he had one on the ring, dude.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

So on the on the DBX 266XL, there's two channels. There's a there's two channels on the back. Yeah. The front, the first channel one would go through the front of the amp, and channel two would go through the back of the amp. So channel two, because uh with rectifiers, you always want to have a a suppressor, a noise suppressor running through the loop. Because they're very noisy heads. Right? So what that did is it it allowed me to saturate my tone, bump up my gain a little bit, but add no extra hum or no extra noise. And I actually was talking to Will about this uh in uh I'm gonna be up in Jersey because now we're me being in Charlotte, it just I can't go there as often. Uh I'm gonna be around that way towards the end of the year. So I'm gonna try and recreate that tone with Will and capture it because I just want to see how it sounds to the quad.

SPEAKER_04 37:41

That was a hell of a tone.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Well, I'll tell you this. So if I put my quads, I'm gonna say something crazy in a minute. A Mesa Recto Cab, it sounds very similar.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

I'll tell you guys a secret. There's an AMP company out there that has created that tone that because that blend that I had, there was something about that JP2C and that multi-watch. Just it sounded fucking crazy. And you would nuts. And you could watch the cabinets kind of swell. Dude, I swear to God, it's kind of wild, but there is an app company out there that captured it. Driftwood. The Driftwood Purple Nightmare is the closest I've ever heard from a single amplifier that gets that tone that I used to get out of that. Me too. Me and Merrick have been discussing something in the background. So I'm trying to do a little project with him, and he's really into it. He's just very busy with all the things that he has. Of course. But we're gonna do there's some discussion about kind of taking that and then taking some ideas from like an old VHT amp that may have been floating around in the back of my head, putting a uh you know, eight-band EQ directly into the loop and like just some things that we're working on.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

I feel like he perfected the the boost in the first of the amp, like no other thing was able to do because it was actually a true, like it's a separate circle. It's a different it's not just uh we're gonna add a gain stage to this already.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

This is like a pedal that's wired in directly. He's really smart. I like him a lot. And uh, I really am impressed with the stuff that he does. If I if I could work with a company, if I ever went back to amps, I would probably be playing in Purple Magazine.

SPEAKER_03 39:17

This is the funny part, is that there's a difference. You have two sets of, or actually, technically, you have three sets of guys that are guitarists. Yeah, you have guitar guys, you have amp guys, and you have pedal guys. Pat and I are both guitar guys. We like amps and we like pedals, but someone like Will, Will is an amp guy. And a pedal guy.

SPEAKER_02 39:37

He's like a crossover guy, his pedal collection. Dude, Will Will sends me pictures sometimes and I'm like, fuck, dude, like these are crazy. But uh, like if I'm on, if I go to NAM or I see some, I just bring Will pedals from these different companies because it makes him happy.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

It's his fucking spend way more money on guitars than I will on Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

I bought six guitars on this tour already, I think.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

I'm cool with like I'm cool with that too channel for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_04 40:01

Welcome to a new episode of the history of icon's guitars. My guest here today is Pat. We're literally just talking about this before the 1978 and before 1995. These guys probably have it or have owned it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

So my biggest right now, obviously, I work with Jackson. So I have a lot of Jacksons, but I also have a lot of Ivan S stuff. Um, I like everything. On this tour, um, I have a buddy of mine that's a collector. I bought from him, I bought um an Explorer, early 2000s Explorer, Golden Age, um, two Music Man Luke's, uh, a 540p. Also picking up a uh custom shop warrior, a purple one, the one that uh Axe Palace did. When I get the two text. Yeah, there's 12 of them. And my buddy, he wanted to move it, and we worked out a deal, so I'm gonna get that from him. Um, I've also got my buddy Kevin, who owns Iconic. I have a two guitars coming from him, so I guess it's seven guitars.

SPEAKER_00 41:03

Yeah, but you would like Diablo guitars. Oh, I know. Me and Parker are tight, dude.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

That's the homie, dude. Parker Lungren, that's that's the homie, dude. Yeah, I buy a lot of stuff from him, and he's bought some stuff from I've gotten three this year so far.

SPEAKER_03 41:14

I'm a buy-sell guy. But the three that I've gotten are yeah, he's gotten some stuff.

SPEAKER_02 41:18

And so I collect from a lot of different companies. I play Jackson exclusively live. I love the fucking guitars. Pat has built all my custom shop stuff that I have. Pat built, he built me a crazy pink warrior that I play almost every night. Um, a purple DK7 that's this Porsche uh Ruby Star color. And um he built me this Kelly that looks like Tony Iomie could fucking play it. Nickel hardware. It's fucking sick. I didn't bring it on this tour, but I love that guitar. Cool. So I I love all the stuff I get from Jackson. I'm playing that Chris Broderick uh Pro Plus model. That's it's a ripper. It's so nice.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

Dude, the neck on the on that thing is really nice. Nice, super nice.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

I actually messaged Chris and I was like, dude, this neck is sick. It's like reminiscent of the old UV style feel. Um, Dave Davidson guitars are good for them, but also like I like Anderson guitars, I like fancy shit, I like the Ernie Ball stuff. Like, there's not a company out there that I can find something that I like. Fender stuff is great, like working within the FMIC family sick because there's access to like Charvel and Fender and Gretsch and all this shit. Yeah, I mean this guy had a fucking white penguin. I have a white penguin, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 42:25

I have a 94 white penguin. So it's pre it was pre-buyout. Wow, yeah. So it was it's I mean, I bought that thing in 2009 and I spent four grand on it.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

And I'm I'm gonna say something cool about my wife again.

SPEAKER_03 42:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

My wife hits me up when I'm on the road and she's like, I cracked open a couple of the cases and I hung a couple of the other guitars in the bedroom. So she gets it. Yeah, and I think it's funny when I see dudes like, Oh, I got a high disk guitar from my wife. I'm like, no way.

SPEAKER_03 42:55

No way. I bought my wife gets it, dude. So check this out. This is actually really funny. So I bought a Charvel Predator, uh, 1989 Charvel Predator in lava crackle.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

It's so sick. So dope.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Awesome. Uh, I had been looking for one for a while because you know, the Model 4s are great, but the Model 4s I don't like because it has the switch system instead of the blade system for the pickups. So I was looking for a Model 3, but the Model 3 and the Predators are very similar. The 3D R and the Predators are pretty much the same thing. Yes, just different, different years. And uh, so I bought it and I wanted to wait a couple days until a sale went through to tell my wife and be like, hey, I bought something. And she's just like, she's like, You didn't have to wait. She's like, I don't give a fuck what you do with your money. She's like, But as long as we have money going towards the house and like our bills are paid and stuff like that, she's like, I don't give a fuck what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah, those all those memes like this is how you sneak a guitar in with your wife. I'm like, I just had my wife carry the case in the car for me. Yeah, I just can't lie to my wife.

SPEAKER_04 44:02

I'm married to someone that understands how you're bugging me to hang my guitars in the living room. My wife loves it when I'm on tour.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

She's like, it reminds me of you being home.

SPEAKER_04 44:10

All the ones she wants to hang are the ones that I use all the time. So I'm like, no, I've never done it because I'm like, no, I use those. I report with those. So I don't there's just going to be empty space on the wall.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I have a lot of stuff that I could hang up on the walls just because it sits in cases.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

Let's get off of this conversation before we get too deep into my irresponsible financial decision. Yeah, great. And let's talk. You said you wanted to talk about Will's contribution to the band. This is something I really love to talk about because I feel like I get asked a lot and people just don't get the concept.

SPEAKER_04 44:39

Okay, so I have a few questions pertaining to Will. Let's go. And I I know I've been asked. He's adorable. Um, yeah. Um I love Will. Tell him to say hey. I will. Um obviously, you guys were creating the band, and when a band starts to grow, you know, you have to put in a lot of time and energy. And do you remember a specific conversation? Because, you know, in context, at the time, he had started doing crazy stuff in the world.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

I mean, it's a freaking Grammy winner, like the dude's the real deal, you know.

SPEAKER_04 45:09

But when he was just basically setting mics for for these producer dudes before he struck out on his own, when he was really learning the craft, was there a conversation where he was just like, listen, this thing is kind of happening, and there's gonna be a point where I'm not able to go out, or did it kind of happen naturally?

SPEAKER_02 45:28

It did happen like that. We did a couple of tours, um, and Will just realized I think it just he just knew that he had to pick a lane and there was a way for him to pick it and keep us involved, which I'm really happy about. I'm gonna say that first because I don't think I'd want to do fit in any different capacity. I really like how it is right now. I like having Tim because I can depend on Tim. I like every member of the band, but Will is like Will is the kind of guy, he understands my temperament. I'm a lot, and everybody that knows me knows him a lot. Um, and I take it. You don't have to agree so avidly. No, it's I listen. Remember we were talking about touring, self-awareness is really important. Sure. Very true. So um I used to just fly off the handle. Now I fly off a little and I can pull myself back in because I realize, like, hey man, like I'm I'm going too far. You know, at the ripe old age of 50, I realize more and more that I am the bearer of my own bad news in a lot of these kinds of situations. So Will understands that I'm an aggressive guy, and he can also be like, yo, man, like shut the fuck up and listen to me.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Or it's it's either that or it's one of those, oh, shut the fuck up. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Like, you know, and that's cool. And and I like that, but I like this the current setup of the band. Creative, we will is a monster. Yeah. So like I think he just knew he knew what he wanted in that moment, and he's created like a fucking little mini empire, dude. Like everybody wants to work with him.

SPEAKER_04 46:56

I want to talk about that from your perspective as well, because obviously as musicians, you need output and outlet for other creative styles. And I know a lot of like my first thought, like when I I love to see him go and do the other things, you know, and better lovers and all those kinds of things. And he does tour those.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

And is bad and is better than fit for an autopsy. And is one of my favorite physical things is so aggressive and abrasive. I fucking love it, dude.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

When he goes and tours, or does he have a conversation like, hey, listen, these guys are gonna want to tour a little bit? Like, as no, I want him to tour.

SPEAKER_02 47:34

Okay, look, I'm gonna say, you guys have a set thing that you can do. Let me let me let me say this.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

What we've created over the last, you know, even 13, 14 years of me being in the band, like we've had the conversation saying that to add will would just be a little too much.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Listen, here's what I'm gonna say. I'm proud of my friend. Of course you are. I'm so fucking proud. I've watched him go from being a dude renting an apartment, you know, being machines, you know, go-to guy, learning all the ropes. I mean, he would was going to college and doing something completely different, and then he made his mind up that this is what he wanted to do. Yeah. And he applied himself in a way where a lot of people can't. And I learned a lot about what I needed to do to make my life better because watching my friend do well. He's successful, and I'm fucking proud of him. When he won that Grammy, I felt like we all you all won it. Yeah, well, just in a way. You shared it. I shared it with my friend because I was proud of him. And I see so many people in this industry like looking at these guys from the side. Like there's a guy in a band that's this prolific, incredible guitar player, and then there's another dude in the band that's in a band with him that has some weird problem with the fact that this person is just incredible at what they do. And I see that often, and it fucking ruins the dynamic. Yeah, I'm so proud. Like, I'm proud of Tim for all his successes, and I'm proud of you know, all these people that were able to do these things. And like, yeah, I'm a different person over time because like I don't want to be a jealous boyfriend, I want to support my dudes in killing a game. Yeah, so anybody that has a fucking problem with their friend being successful, that's a problem with yourself, man.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

But at the same time, the position that we're in, like, I owe this half of my or you know, this you know, 70, 80 percent of my career to Pat and Will, right? You know what I mean? Pat's the one that wanted me in the band, and when he gave me that call, I was like, but it's kind of good. It's a fair shake, man.

SPEAKER_02 49:41

If you weren't here, we wouldn't be where we are. And you make me a better guitar player because you're good at guitar. So I have to compete with you every night, and it makes me work harder. And if you don't understand how that works as a fucking musician, you know what I'm talking about. There's always one fucking dick in the band that's really fucking good at guitar, really good at what they do. Like, Joe's a great fucking singer. Like, I gotta compete with that every night. Yeah, Hans is our guy.

SPEAKER_04 50:06

Yeah, good looking and so skilled and all fuck you, dude.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

But also good. Well, because of rising tide, all kids all ships.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

Right. But here's the thing like Lorna shows a really good example of this, and I'm gonna use those guys because we love those dudes. Yeah, and I'm so proud. Like, every time I talk to Austin, I'm so proud. We come from the same neighborhood. Like, he was a young kid coming up. I'm fucking so proud of that band. And like in 2019, they supported us.

SPEAKER_03 50:36

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:37

And they were CD release tour. Yep, they were on direct on half of our tour, and then fast forward after COVID, they're the biggest band in our genre. And people are like, Oh, you must feel some sort of way. I said, Yeah, I feel like I want to go on tour with them so we can put it in front of 10,000 people a night. It sucks. Like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, dude. And like it's like, what the fuck are you so upset about?

SPEAKER_03 50:58

Like, they're having their moment. Good for them. What's crazy? That's sick. What's crazy about Lorna, just to touch, touch on it real quick, is that on that tour, like I felt bad because like there were days, dude, there were days where they performed as a three-piece. Like they were going through some shit. Yeah, yeah. And you know, obviously, you know, shit went down when they were putting out uh I forget the record that the their last singer did, and then you know, he was done. But that was a mess. Um to see them say, and I remember Austin posting about it, being like, you know what? I put too much time and effort into this fucking band to let anyone ruin this. I'm we're going for it. Yeah. To see that happen and see where they're at now fucking awesome. And then Will the Angel. Yeah, exactly. Who's fucking that dude's nuts? I mean, look, bad dude, great fucking vocalist.

SPEAKER_02 51:52

Say what you will about the success of a band. Everybody's like, oh, it's only because of Will. It's no, it's because Austin and Adam put in Rick Burr, guitar player. Fuck off. That kid's incredible. And we came through that band started right around the same time as Fit in New Jersey, you know, 2006, 2007. They've been putting in the work. My band's growing. I don't I don't need to be as big as the next band. When it's time for us to be in that spot, we'll get there. And if it means that my friends that I came up with can have a minute to do the big thing and be the big band, like I'm fucking proud of that. Stop hating. Stop hating. You know what? The only thing you're hating is the fact that you're not as good, you're not getting as much attention, and you're fucking so sad that the world's not giving you what you want. You know what? I'm gonna work for everything that we have. And if you don't like it, get the fuck out of my way because I'm gonna run you over in the process.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

I can't tell you how many bands we've toured with that, you know, and I I was explaining the uh this to someone the other day. Like when you have bands at this level, these bands, don't worry about these bands. It's these bands. Because these bands are threatened by the bands that are right underneath them, and they just gatekeep all that bullshit. They're like, oh no, like, you know, you're not allowed to have fucking you're not allowed to have catering, you're not allowed to do this, you're not allowed, you know, oh, you know, uh, yeah, you're not allowed to use lights today. You're not allowed to do this, you're not allowed to do that. My favorite line. My favorite line. 2014, we did a tour. In 2014, we did a tour where there were days where they tried to put locals on after us. Right? Apple tools. Local bands after us. There were days that they told us that we weren't allowed to sell merch because the show was sold out, so they couldn't add another merch table. Right. Show me their face. Dude, we played on this on this particular tour. On this particular tour, uh, we went on about anywhere from 15 to 45 minutes before advertised doors every day. Brother Michigan, advertised doors were 630. But here's the thing.

SPEAKER_00 53:57

But were you guys out with Motley Crew? Dude, we don't think they're in Motley Cruise.

SPEAKER_03 54:01

It's somebody who thinks they're in Motley Crew. We won't get into it, but it's stuff like that. And then six months later, we did a tour with Crowbar, and those dudes were like dad. Stickest dude. Those dudes were like total.

SPEAKER_02 54:16

It sucks that they're I mean, look, I'm happy that they're getting their kudos right now and that people are giving them them flowers, but they deserve that fucking 20 years ago. Like I'll say this out loud there is not a band in the world that I think deserves it more.

SPEAKER_03 54:30

Saw them with my with my wife, saw them on a boat recently, uh standing there in line uh for the bar to get a couple waters, and Tommy walks up, he's like, What the fuck are you doing here? Yeah. And it was it it was a circle line tour around New York City. Yeah. And saw a crowbar on a boat, and it was ridiculous. Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 54:46

Dude, come on. But best tour that we had. Sonic Access is like one of the best records ever read. Of course. Yeah. At that time.

SPEAKER_03 54:55

In 2014, when we did that tour, after coming off of that shit tour that we did, right, and got treated like absolute shit. These dudes showed up on Halloween on a day off. We had an off date because obviously we couldn't afford to not play a show. Of course, right? Because we were all broke and shit. Those dudes showed up, went to Walmart, got burgers and hot dogs, and cooked for us. Stop night on Halloween night in 2014.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

And his lady and me hanging out. He would, they're huge KISS fans. Yep. Kiss screaming out of their bandwagon, bringing us on the bandwagon every night. Listen, man, that's that thing that we're talking about. You got a guy like Kirk who has written, in my opinion, some of the most important songs in metal, influencing metal and hardcore and all these different genres that you want to pretend you're not influenced by Crowbar, get the fuck out of here. So, like, they don't have to do anything for us, they didn't have to do one thing, they were just such good people. Tommy's fucking great, the whole band's incredible. I mean, I saw Soylent Green I don't know how many fucking times when I was a kid, and that's you know, Tommy's band. Like, I've these guys have been an integral part of heavy metal forever. Yeah, and they don't give a shit about egos. That's what we're learning from.

SPEAKER_03 56:09

And when you get to tour with bands like that who have done it, and that's one of the reasons why you know we get along with the Lamb guys so well, is that like Lamb does not they don't see any bands as a threat, as they shouldn't, because they're that legend status, but even bands smaller than them, it's like you know, hey man, if the tour's doing well, then everyone's doing well. Yeah, it shouldn't be a threat. Like, like I said before, healthy competition is fantastic. I want to make sure that I'm the best band on the bill, and I want to make everybody go, wow, like that's the one.

SPEAKER_02 56:45

And not because I want anybody else to fail, just because I want to succeed. Of course. And also, if I'm a headliner, right? And we do headliners, and when we take bands out and we watch them play, if you suck, I'm never taking you on tour again because I don't want the people that like my band to not feel like they want to see every band on the bill. So if I'm in a position of like a lamb of God or like a band of that, you know, upper echelon of heavy metal, I go out and I see all those bands doing their job, I know the venues are gonna be happy because everybody's staying in the building, the merch sales are gonna be good, everybody's gonna see the thing, and it's going to make the tour good. And then people are gonna say that lamb of god tour. They're not gonna say that fit tour, they're gonna say that lamb of god tour was awesome. So my job is to prep the day so they can do their job. Yeah, learn your fucking place, know your fucking role, you're not better than anybody else. And when Mark Martin walks up, when I'm packing merch and he goes, I heard you guys are doing great, I'm stoked. That's all I need. Yeah, and that happened 20 minutes before we got here. So my day is great. Randy's fucking sick, all those dudes are sick, and that it should teach you something, what what you should be. Stop pretending you're better. You're not. I just hate it.

SPEAKER_03 57:56

It's rad that like a lot of those dudes also recognize that you know, yes, we are peers because we're on the same tour and we're colleagues and so on and so forth. But at the end of the day, like we are fans as well. Like getting to go up.

SPEAKER_04 58:10

I was gonna say that about dude, all their all their tour lineups are like, oh, you guys are just my god is just fans of really sick music. Oh, yeah. Like it feels like all their tours are like who do you want to who do you want to take out? Yeah, of course. I mean, let's take on our homies and small.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

Yeah, it's and also like we're all fans of that band. Everybody every night is trying to watch their set. Like I stand side stage. Number one, I want to get an education on what I should be doing and shouldn't be doing to get to the level that my fucking, you know, my heroes are at. And number two, because I just like the riffs, dude. Yeah, I want to hear these songs. They got some of those. And there's but there's some good songs in this set. You know what's you know what's funny?

SPEAKER_03 58:48

The other day, we're sitting there, I'm getting my stuff ready, we're on the floor, I'm pulling apart cases and whatnot, and uh it was Willie and their and Mark's tech James playing uh Redneck, right? And then Willie starts playing Laid to Rest, and James was like, fuck, I don't know that one. And I was like, I do. I fucking ran up on stage. Okay, ran up on stage, grabbed grabbed Mark's uh Les Paul, which his signature Les Paul plays better than 90% of Les Paul's that I've played in the last 20 years. It plays so good. Honestly, it's amazing. Yeah, and they're beautiful, like that. I like the fact that they went with a standard, not a gasp. I do too. But then you know, so we're playing that and then affordable and nice. I go to Willie and I'm like, what about this one? And I start ripping songs from As the Palaces Burn and and uh New American Gospel, and he's just like, fuck, I don't know if I remember that. Yeah, and then like I start playing it, and he's just like, Alright, cool. And it's it's funny because Art originally was a fan, so he knows all that old stuff as well. Being a metal drummer and and you know, kind of carrying that torch in that band, like you know, he's nailing fills that I'm like, I'm like, Do you remember this? And he's just like, dude, I I learned everything, muscle memory, you know. Of course, and uh like I'm playing, I'm I'm ripping out for your malice, devil in God's country, like stuff like that. And they're just like they're just like, oh my god, like we should play this, and I'm just like, I'll play it with you. I was just like, you let me know, you know. But like I said, as fans, being able to go up and hang out with those dudes and you know, getting to play their guitars that they play every night on stage is so cool. Rekindle that that childhood fandom of being 14 years old and saying, This is I need to know every riff on this record. Yeah, you know, seeing them at OzFest 2004 when I was 15 years old for the first time and being blown the fuck away.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:43

I mean, what this comes down to is the fact that like we're music fans. Yeah, and when we get to tour with these kinds of bands, like it's like it's not real. So, like, yeah, maybe we're not the biggest band on earth, but I'm doing exactly what I said I would do my whole life.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:57

16-year-old you would be stuck.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

16-year-old me would never believe for a minute that I was where I am right now. And like, yeah, I'm not in a huge band. Like, I facts like fit is just we're a band, we do, you know, a thousand, fifteen hundred kids a night on our own, which is fantastic. You can have a career doing that and make money, but then we get to tiptoe around these big guys once in a while and you know, dip our toes into that side of the fucking water, and it just feels nice to be taken seriously.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Yeah, you know, and God those are important check-ins to have with 16-year-old you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:28

Well, there are nights when I'll hit up my wife and I'll just be like, you know, none of this seems real. Like, you know, fucking Chuck Billy called me on the phone the other day to talk about fucking eyeglasses because you know he needs prescriptions and I've known him for a little while. Like that kind of shit doesn't seem real. You know what I mean? Hi, Chuck. I'm not trying to, you know, flex with your name, but you did call me. So um it's just weird. That's weird stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

People that we call peers now and friends. Yeah. I'm still nervous to play guitar around. It's very wild. Like there's still friendships that I hold that I'm like that I tiptoe with because I don't want to fuck up a friendship because I like I'm like, fuck man, like 17-year-old me would be fucking losing my mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

Well, also you fuck up your band's opportunities too.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

But like things there, fucking getting to text a dude like Gary Holt or Jeff Loomis or something like that, like doesn't seem real. You know, it's just guys that I looked up to Jeff's the best. The nicest fucking dude ever. Nicest fucking guy. Yeah. Um you know, getting the to talk to those dudes occasionally when, like I said, 17, 18-year-old, 19-year-old me would be like, those dudes are up here.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:37

Yeah, I mean, dude, uh this is just with the facts because of Will Putney, we've gotten to get our fingers into some relationships that maybe we should have never been able to. Yeah. And like the the amount of crazy people that I've met because of Will's relationships and the things that happen, you have to take it very seriously and you have to deal with it very delicately. Because there's a lot of careers at stake if you make a stupid mistake. Of course. You know, so lots of cool friendships, lots of cool people to be taken seriously by. But I'm just a 16-year-old kid stoked to fucking stand next to the stage and get to watch my favorite bands play. Yeah, yeah. And like, you know, maybe you call me corny, oh you're goofy, whatever. It's it's whatever, but I don't care. I just it's it's a fantasy world that I shouldn't be allowed to run around in, and I am yeah, you know, I relate to that a lot.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Like being in constantly riding the blade edge of like, what am I what's appropriate for me to ask for from these people who are my friends? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

It's very, it's very true. It's very true.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:41

You you want I ask for a lot too. Yeah. I think here's the thing. If you're willing to do a lot, it's okay to ask for a lot. Yeah. And and Tim will tell you, like, if you're my friend or you work with our band or we are working together, I'll give you the fucking shirt off my back. I don't give a shit. But you try to take advantage of my band or do something shitty, there's a whole different side to us too. Yeah. And you have to remember that everyone is like that. So you have to treat these relationships properly and you have to treat people properly. And if you don't, it will come back around. You know, and listen, for a long time I was a lot. People didn't want to work with me. You know, I have I have a fucking last month, yeah. But um, you know, I also realized that I want to have longevity and like I said, bearer of my own burden. So now I try to be a better version of myself every day. He tries to be better for the band and for the relationships, but also just for myself. Of course. So it's easy. You know, it's just easy not to be an idiot. It's also easy just to shut the fuck up. Hey, if you're a singer in a band, don't talk on the internet. Shut the fuck up. Watch that. Watch how big your band gets, dude. Yeah, just just you know, you know, it's very easy to have no opinion.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:55

Yeah, just don't just shut the fuck up. It's called right media training.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:59

Yeah. Media training.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:00

Media training.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

But you know, yeah, dude. Yeah, I like it. I like I like playing music.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:07

Guys, you gotta go play a show. Nah. And we don't want to quit fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

You guys play guitar for us tonight. The riffs are super easy, I promise. I mean, they say on the internet. On the internet, they say they're easy, so you just go get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:21

It's two o'clock uh catering is more important right now. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:25

I'll get brushed up on uh guitartab.com and I'll be fine. They're all wrong for it.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:29

I used I use songster.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:32

I use Ultimate Guitar. If it has five stars, it's accurate. You know what?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:35

I used to, but Songster is more like uh it's more like guitar pro. Oh, right. So like you can scroll to get it. Oh, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

All right, gentlemen Wait a minute, I have a last question. Okay. You traded live amps and cabs for quads to up production value. At what point would you go back to amps?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:56

When I have a truck. Yeah, when we have enough money to bring it up.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:00

Do you want a truck? I don't know that I would. Well, yeah, because I want to be playing massive stages with fucking more lights than the universe. You know what I mean? I want I want to do the show. I sure we could do it in a cheaper way and make more money, but also I want I want to be the band that people have to go back into the show. Yeah, you know, you gotta dump your money back in. So I want to do that. So if we were ever at the point where we were doing rooms like this, I would love to have a wall of cabs. You know, it looks tough, dude. Also, at the same time, I like the idea of the way that Lamb's setup is, they have their amps off stage and a couple of cabs, and you know, mic'd mic'd uh what are those box of doom cabin? Yeah, isocabs, and they they do all that cool shit and they have an elaborate stage setup.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:47

Mark's is sick because it's just a Mesa 212 in a massive road case. Yeah, it's super cool. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

And like I would love to be able to do something like that, but but also like meh, I don't know, my tone's pretty. You guys can be the judge tonight. Yeah, you can do a follow-up to this and tell us if we suck or not.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:03

You know, I mean, we went to that autopsy show, and that tone was terrible. Terrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

No, we got the good tone.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:09

Sounded very digital.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:10

Just it didn't breathe right.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:13

You know, and don't get me wrong, don't get me wrong. There are certain things about the quads that you know I think could be improved, but they could give me more of them. Honestly, yeah, I could I could use like five more, but I think the the technology behind the quad is just so insane, and it's legal. All the modelers are so damn good now.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

But listen, after going to Neural and seeing what they do, which I'm not allowed to talk about, just so you know, make you sign an NDA and give like a sample of your blood. Shit, it's crazy. Not really, but awesome. Like walking into that room and just seeing all the algorithms written out on the walls, and I'm just like, holy shit, like those those people take it very fucking seriously.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

And they're very good at the jobs, very good.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:56

So I feel like the neural team is where it's at super nice people, you know, because we played in Finland in Helsinki, yeah, and we got to go and hang out for an hour and just shoot the shit, see all the new stuff they had, see all the rooms where they do the captures and like talk. And bro, they got guys there that understand things in a way that I don't get. Yeah, yeah, you know, but I mean, uh probably all of them, Fractal and Kemper, they all have their geniuses, of course. But for me, the simplicity, it's like using an app on your phone. The QC is so user-friendly, yeah. The UI is incredible, it's it's really smart. And I'm old, so I know how to do what I know how to do with amplifiers. When I saw this, I was like, I get this. Like Fractal and Kemper, the um uh I I can't, it's option paralysis. Like you move one thing and then everything's fucked. And this is a much easier kind of thing to do. It's just it's very cool. You know, I I would say ten. Ten across the board for the user interface.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:01

What's awesome is that you know, the the ease of access when it comes to the quads, right? For us, we have a we have an A-rig and we have a B rig. We're our A rig lives in the States, and we have a fully redundant system where we have a main and a spare quad.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:19

BTPA, shout out.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:21

Great company. Built our our entire rig.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:23

That's the homie, dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:25

You know, it allows for switching between, you know, fully redundant where it's like there's no lag whatsoever switching between.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:33

Hit a button, go back, move a cable, boom, you're you're fucking wrong.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:35

And then also it allows for MIDI switching if we ever get to that point. Now for our Euro rigs and our travel rigs, we literally just have the GLDX 16 or GLXD 16, whatever. Uh and then a quad on a pedal, on a temple audio. You guys, that's that's my rights. On a temple audio. It's so great.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:54

On a temple audio with uh what's the middle. Dude, it's a weird bro. Oh no, Walrus. Walrus made Walrus' setup. It's the best because they have a dedicated 12-volt line specifically made for the QC. Yeah. And it's perfect. Yep. It's the perfect setup. I have it weighs like seven pounds. It's a carry-on. I can bring it to everywhere. We just did Europe, Australia, Thailand, and Japan with those setups. No problems. No problems whatsoever.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:21

And that was the So never going back to hands. Probably not. We've had friends of standing side stage at festivals, and these friends like I'd get off stage and I'm like, this is my rig, and they'd look and they'd be like, fuck off. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. I'm like, it's literally uh plug it for an XLR and walk away. Done and done. I need power. And what's awesome is that those walrus uh power with the canvas, it's universal power. So it doesn't matter what IEC I plug in, I can go around the world, plug in a different IEC cable, and I'm good all across the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:54

I can't count how many times I've been on tour with people using regular pedal boards and you just smell burning solder. And you're like, Rutgro, you fucked that up. That's not right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:02

That's it. Completely smoke back in, boys. No frying their boards.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:07

Yeah, that's it. Maybe one day. I think I think if we're doing some like big, big shows and like we get to the point where we're pulling people like on the next level and we can afford it. There there could be talks about doing it, but also it's like, why? I wouldn't why not just do more cool shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:22

I wouldn't mind adding cabs as much as I was as I would mind having a hard time playing cabs. We still run cabs out of our case. I thought the same thing until we got on ears and started doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:32

Yeah, yeah. And you get over it. And to be clear, it's when you have when you have kind of a bullshit like gatekeepy thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:39

When you have ears in and your your ears are super dialed, like you know how this is. Like it's fucking hard, it's a hard pill to swallow. I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:49

If you want to leave the show with ringing ears, turn your pack up.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:52

Yeah, well, also just still not fall asleep in your bunk. I I swore forever I would never switch, but I always said the same thing. I said, the day that I find something that is impressive enough to me that I feel like I can safely do that, I will do it. And I've also said this a million times. If you spend enough time with something, you can get a good tone. I believe that. If you're knee-deep in the Kemper world, you will get a good tone. If you understand tone and the difference between playing in your bedroom and playing live and where you need to be and the frequencies you need to fill, don't step on your bass player, don't step on these things. Like if you get your tone, because that's a big thing in our world, especially since we're heavy, everybody wants to push the most low end out of their cab, but then you're stepping on your bass player's frequency.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:36

That's the bass guitar to do the work.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:37

Yes, but I was we are a mid-range frequency instrument. That's right. I also want to say this.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:43

I want to say this, and I think that people don't harp on this enough. It doesn't matter how expensive your gear is, gear is, it doesn't matter what amps you have, it's all in your hands. If you give somebody, if you give somebody Jerry Cantrell's rig, or Eddie Van Halen's rig, or Tony Iowa's rig, or whoever it may be, you're not going to sound like them.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:08

The Nuno Betancourt story.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:10

Nuno went and Eddie Eddie let him play through his rig, and he's like, I'm finally gonna sound like Eddie. And it just sounded like Nuno. Which is pretty good. Yeah, which that dude. Yeah, Nuno's a ripper. That dude was.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:23

I went back to the beginning, and that dude was literally the star of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:28

Got to watch him warm up two nights in a row when I did the Tamarillo guitar camp. Dude, right before COVID. Fuck, he's all right. Wildly, wildly underrated.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:35

Once at NAM and James Taptinos from KMC Music's the homie, I've known him for like 25, 30 years, and I got to meet him, and he was like larger than life, and like I was just like, hello, hello, nice to meet you. Bye. See you later.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:50

Wildly underrated. Yeah, I think he doesn't get enough credit for being the guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:54

Yeah, and also like innovative and interesting, and everything he's ever done is cool, and he's eccentric and weird, and I love that. Yeah, I love I love that kind of guy because like that's the Paul Gilbert that I like. That's the things that I like. Yeah, like we did this thing the other day where we had to pick our favorite guitar players, and they threw a lot of tough ones at me because like my tops are like Michael Amma and like Marty Friedman and all these things, but Paul Gilbert will always come out on top because there's not a dude as versatile, weird, and creative as that guy in the world right now playing guitar. So nicest dude. I know I hear so many great stories about him and his big giant hands.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:30

I I shook his hand and his fingers were wrapped around my hands. Golly. Nice dude. By the way, the funniest thing about that, you know, winter stays on thing that we did, uh when I look or when they started with my list, they gave me my all-time favorite guitarist as number one. And I just it he literally ran the whole list, and I was just like everybody go again. Yeah, I was just like, I was like, we have to take him out or put him last because like nobody will be, you know. Yeah. So we ended up taking that guitarist out and putting in more and blah blah blah blah. And it was just one of those things where like I looked at Pat's list and I put I put Paul, I know Pat held Paul very high up on his favorites list, and I put Paul like halfway through, and it it just as soon as he said he hit Paul Gilbert, he was just it was like Paul Gilbert or this guy, and it was just Paul every single time. That get out of my yard fucking record.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:28

Oh bro, you can't you guys in Portland tomorrow?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:32

No, no, we're in Seattle. Or sorry, uh we're in Vancouver tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:35

I will I would love I I honestly like my when you go from like being in like a crazy prog band and then being in like a huge pop band and then doing all the things that he's done. I mean, and not getting the credit that he deserves because like you got like Steve I, Joe Satch, all those dudes, incredible guitar players, innovative, they do a lot of things, but none of them can touch that guy. I don't care what anyone says. Paul Gilbert is the most like prolific, incredible guitar player I've ever seen. It's like go back and watch all those old videos. You know how bad I want.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:10

Oh fuck, dude. I want a seven string fireman.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:14

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:15

Bro, dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:15

I would love to ask him about all the weirdo Ibanez stuff that he's got. So now hold on.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:20

Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:22

Okay, you see how excited we get? So that's the thing.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:24

Yeah, yeah. What's what's funny about Paul is that even through watching his videos, he's a fucking tinkerer. He he tinkers, but the the coolest part about him is he's not a gear snob. Like he doesn't care. Not at all. He doesn't have to care how he gets there. It needs to be a custom shop. This it's like, no, give me a$350 Chinese-made iceman and let's party because the setup is going to be good.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:50

I got to go to the custom shop from Ibanez when I was working with them, and they had one of his guitars there that he was personally modding himself. And like, some of the we I want to know why. I'm like, why would you do this? Like, like Bondo or something on building the neck up and doing all these things. And it's like, that's a guy that is just looking for different things, chasing the dragon forever. And he's been the best guitar player for 35-40 years, not getting the credit he deserves. I understand he's a big deal in the guitar world, but you can say Steve Vai in a room, and most people know Passion and Warfare did something for Steve Vai that like it didn't do for a lot of other people. But like a guy like Paul, like, oh, you know, the guy from this pop band back in the no, no, the guy that did this, and then you're like, whoa, wait a minute, you know what I mean? Like, I just feel like he doesn't get the flowers the way that he should in a lot of situations. He's just fucking sick, dude. Yeah, you know, it's like him, Sean Lane, like these names that you say out loud that people, if you don't know, you just don't know. Yeah, like those are the fucking guys, like you know, Jason Becker, all these things, like you know, those are the dudes that deserve the kudos, in my opinion. And like you throw a guy like that in the list, and it's sure, like Michael Amott carcass is like my favorite, and that Bill Steer, Michael Amott combination, I think it's some of the sickest riffs. Kirk was on there, Crowbar, but uh it's it's a different thing when it comes to technicality, weirdness, and creativeness. And like I watched Paul Gilbert hold a fucking like full-size stand-up bass and sweep on it. It's like the fuck can do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:29

Well, a person with hands the size of your leg.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:32

Yeah, his hands are like this, you know what I mean? That was why those lists were so funny because like you know, you put up different guitarists against each other, and like for me, I'm more of a total package guy. So, yeah, like someone might be an absolute shredder, but if they lack in the the riff department, then I'm gonna go with the guy that's a little bit more you riff heavy and maybe not as you know. I gotta go back to work. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:59

I'm getting called for merch, dude.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:01

It's time for me to go do merch. All right, gentlemen, thank you so much for doing it. We love you guys. Thank you for having me. It's great seeing you. It's good to see you too. And uh with that, that's uh the Trish Beards Podcast episode two, guys. We're we're out. We're usus.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:15

Thank you for having us.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:17

Boom. Is there a bathroom in here? Yep, I'll shoot you. Is there blood still in it?

unknown 1:19:22

Yep.